What is the "value" of the XP Death Penalty post 90

There needs to be a death penalty. There needs to be a punishment for death. The death penalty is really meaningless and barely even noticeable prior to level 90. The whole point is the level 100 chase goal. Without the experience point penalty the level 100 chase goal does not exist, at least not in its current form.

It can be argued that the penalty hurts player retention as the opening poster has mentioned. This is obviously true for some players. It can be argued that the level 100 chase goal helps player retention for some other players. This is also obviously true. Which is stronger? My guess is it hurts more than it helps. If GGG got rid of the experience point death penalty then they would have to come up with a different penalty.

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ebondark wrote:

Don't take this as a complaint. If I want to grind to 100 I know how to do it and it's easy (just BORING).

So I sat here and asked why does the massive XP penalty exist post 90 (I use that level because it takes ~3-6 T16 maps to recover from a death each map depending on mods etc.).

So what is the value to the steepness of the penalty? If I want to I can grind white T16 maps and never die and get to 100 no problem. Boring.

So talked to another player and they explained this is just a remnant of when the end game was a level 100 grind and that was the point. Now not so much but it's still there.

Does anyone know? Again this isn't bitchfest as I know how to modify my play stile to get to 100 relatively easy. I'm just curious what the point is?

The point is to make you care about defenses.
You don't get to 100 *easily* if you ignore defenses entirely when there's penalty for dying. Sure you can grind white t16 maps without dying for eternity. It's actually quite basic game play for hardcore.

You say it's boring and easy already. Imagine that without a penalty.

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Fapmobile wrote:

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ebondark wrote:

Don't take this as a complaint. If I want to grind to 100 I know how to do it and it's easy (just BORING).

So I sat here and asked why does the massive XP penalty exist post 90 (I use that level because it takes ~3-6 T16 maps to recover from a death each map depending on mods etc.).

So what is the value to the steepness of the penalty? If I want to I can grind white T16 maps and never die and get to 100 no problem. Boring.

So talked to another player and they explained this is just a remnant of when the end game was a level 100 grind and that was the point. Now not so much but it's still there.

Does anyone know? Again this isn't bitchfest as I know how to modify my play stile to get to 100 relatively easy. I'm just curious what the point is?

The point is to make you care about defenses.
You don't get to 100 *easily* if you ignore defenses entirely when there's penalty for dying. Sure you can grind white t16 maps without dying for eternity. It's actually quite basic game play for hardcore.

You say it's boring and easy already. Imagine that without a penalty.

To take it one step further, I would imagine that 100 being a given, it would likely be factored into the balance of the game if 100 was attainable without much worry. Right now it is not necessary and not expected. Remove the death penalty and higher levels will be factored into the difficulty of all things in the game.

I do believe this falls into a be careful what you wish for kind of situation.

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Aetherium wrote:

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DÉSPAIR wrote:

Why are you using 90 as some magical treshold like it's 2013 when level 90 was actually some form of accomplishment? Xp barely matters until like 97, that's when it starts getting grindier, dying on 90 is like 2 maps worth of time lost.

It serves to filter out bad builds(glasscannons) and prevent them from reaching higher levels, of course unfortunately, trade allows you to completely bypass this obstacle just like it does some other very crucial things.

because alot of ppl still never reach 90, if you die multiple times a map, u might only reach 86

2 very simple solutions:

- Stop playing bad builds, if your build dies multiple times per map, then you might want to reconsider what you're playing, no build should die ever unless pushed to rippier content, let alone multiple times per map.

- Stop just alching maps and running them without even reading the mods.

If your build is so bad that you're dying multiple times a map, you deserve to never level up. I mean, penalty aside, how can that even be fun?

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ebondark wrote:

Don't take this as a complaint. If I want to grind to 100 I know how to do it and it's easy (just BORING).

So I sat here and asked why does the massive XP penalty exist post 90 (I use that level because it takes ~3-6 T16 maps to recover from a death each map depending on mods etc.).

So what is the value to the steepness of the penalty? If I want to I can grind white T16 maps and never die and get to 100 no problem. Boring.

So talked to another player and they explained this is just a remnant of when the end game was a level 100 grind and that was the point. Now not so much but it's still there.

Does anyone know? Again this isn't bitchfest as I know how to modify my play stile to get to 100 relatively easy. I'm just curious what the point is?

Death penalty is really a relic of the past. It became such after the introduction of pure breachstones and 5-way legions.

Level100 used to be a big prestige, now it's just a matter if someone has spare 20-25divines to buy it.

I would love to see an atlas passive or some sort of jewel to put in passive tree, which would do something like this:
- You no longer lose experience when dying
- Experience gained reduced by 80% (basically x5 more exp required to level up)
- You lose all experience in current level when allocating this passive/jewel

There is no death penalty, there is a currency penalty - if you want that extra skill points you either farm suboptimal easier content and get fewer returns or pay a fee to circumvent the mechanic. Given that, in softcore, the game is a capitalism simulator I think it fits. For those that don't want to chase powerful items but to complete a challenge with limited resources while staying alive there is ssfhc and ruthless ssfhc, no?

Frankly, I just think some people feel guilty or ashamed for taking the easier options - my idea is that there be some cosmetic or special hero frame/portrait if you've reached lvl 100 while having done at least x amount of y uber content/ 8 mod t16s while above 75% xp in lvls 98+. With a proverbial check that no pure breachstones /5 ways have been done in a party since lvl 98, of course.

Answer = Diablo 2 did it, people liked diablo 2.

I get to 90-91 ish in regular playing and then join experience groups for a day to get to 95-98 (whatever I need). Is that fun? No. Is that better than the yo-yo of dying here and there? Yes. Do I think that GGG should do it this way? No.

Look, I deal with it as do most all high playtime players. But that day I power level is definitely the worst day of the season and the primary reason I only do one toon a league. Now all that being said the experience groups are way better than they used to be because everyone pretty much knows what they are doing.

I see no reason why GGG should keep the penalty. If you want punishment for dying go play hardcore.


It's just stupid.

Xp penalties work in some games, but this ain't it.

Most of my deaths are due to lag anyway.

I think the Value of the penalty has been side stepped by so many players paying to level up in 5ways or leech xp in other forms, that its harder to see why it is there now. But I do believe it still serves its purpose as a mountain to overcome in a game for people that 'play the game'. Sidestepping one of the games mechanics by buying xp is essentially plugging in a cheat code in my opinion. If buying xp was not a thing anyone and everyone would have a feeling of accomplishment by reaching levels higher than 95