Is drop-rate of guardian maps broken or tuned only for streamers?

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oestergreen wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

is it? or are we just saying people who kill 10x more content than me per week have 10x more stuff? isnt that just inherent to a loot based game?

why are we presuming the people with the most stuff are the ones who are playing the way the devs game balance intends the game to be played?

Dude, you're completely describing the problem this whole post was about!

YES people who spend 50 hours a week in POE, will have more stuff than those who spend 10 hours a week.

HENCE the post title ... DROP RATES ARE TUNED for STREAMERS, because you NEED to be doing 50h a week if you want to be dropping a sustainable amount of guardian maps/invitations and other things that GATE the end-game content, because the drop-rate is nowadays so low that the average casuals cannot sustain any amount of guardian maps due to NOT spending 50h per week! TADAAAAA :)

So you telling us that the reason they have more stuff is because they have more time to engage with the game.... omfg, that's EXACTLY what this post was about... end-game bosses are GATED behind various guardian maps and maven invitations .... and those drop-rates are nowadays so so low that ONLY people who sink 50h+ into poe per week has a chance to sustain these items that are required to be doing the end-game content!

Hence this "loot game" is tuned for people who has a crazy amount of hours to play per week. If the game was tuned around the average player, then these gated keys would drop far far more frequently and the streamers and ppl with 50h+ a week, would simply just be having an overflow of those items and selling them, which would bring their price down (you wouldn't be paying 50c+ for ONE invitation).

Thanks for agreeing.

1. i was not replying to you, i was replying to a comment that everything in the game was balanced for streamers.

2. who says the intended balance is that you sustain this content? maybe these things are supposed to be something you do occasionally, not as a sustained grind. maybe its intended that theyre worth 50c+.

i remember when lvl78 maps were the highest tier of map and they were worth multiple exalts each, just for 1 normal map. that was an intended state of balance at the time. mortal hope was worth multiple exalts for a long time. you ever try to self farm a single uber atziri set back before div cards etc? from farming the sacrifice pieces that had to be done outside of maps and then running the full sets through to getting the 4 mortal pieces?

the devs definitely didnt intend for a casual player to be sustaining uber atziri access, or even being able to reliably self farm a single attempt to be honest, thats how restrictive it was.


im not offering any opinion on if thats a good intended balance or not, but im just pointing out it was extremely restricted and intentional balance. being able to 'sustain' content like that was not an intended outcome.


the idea that a casual player should even be sustaining red maps is a fairly recent change of design philosophy in the bigger picture.

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oestergreen wrote:

DROP RATES ARE TUNED for STREAMERS, because you NEED to be doing 50h a week if you want to be dropping a sustainable amount of guardian maps/invitations and other things that GATE the end-game content, because the drop-rate is nowadays so low that the average casuals cannot sustain any amount of guardian maps due to NOT spending 50h per week! TADAAAAA :)

"TADAAAAA"?

What I think Snorkle is trying to explain to you, is that certain things in the game aren't SUPPOSED to be "sustainable". They are SUPPOSED to be rare. You are SUPPOSED to have limited access to some content. Sure, you can brute force this by playing an unhealthy amount - but that is true for all loot based games. In addition to this, you have trade: If you want to FARM something RARE over and over again, you have to be OK with the fact that you have to trade.

I'm not playing 50h a week. I'm not a streamer. And I have 'enough' access to guardian maps for me to be OK with it - but still feel good when I drop one. If I want to go on a bossing spree, I buy the maps. This game is - and will always be balanced around an economy.

TADAAAAA, not-a-cockroach!

with 183 hours of gameplay in the last 2 weeks, that's what says on steam, still the loot drop rate feels like 1000% dimmed to "Tink" emoticon (if you know what i mean)

listen we have been over this, I have confirmed, streamer client has a 15005% buff to drops

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Phrazz wrote:

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oestergreen wrote:

DROP RATES ARE TUNED for STREAMERS, because you NEED to be doing 50h a week if you want to be dropping a sustainable amount of guardian maps/invitations and other things that GATE the end-game content, because the drop-rate is nowadays so low that the average casuals cannot sustain any amount of guardian maps due to NOT spending 50h per week! TADAAAAA :)

"TADAAAAA"?

What I think Snorkle is trying to explain to you, is that certain things in the game aren't SUPPOSED to be "sustainable". They are SUPPOSED to be rare. You are SUPPOSED to have limited access to some content. Sure, you can brute force this by playing an unhealthy amount - but that is true for all loot based games. In addition to this, you have trade: If you want to FARM something RARE over and over again, you have to be OK with the fact that you have to trade.

I'm not playing 50h a week. I'm not a streamer. And I have 'enough' access to guardian maps for me to be OK with it - but still feel good when I drop one. If I want to go on a bossing spree, I buy the maps. This game is - and will always be balanced around an economy.

TADAAAAA, not-a-cockroach!

ya exactly.


and that doesnt mean there isnt a valid point being made with the thread, im not really offering an opinion on if a given state of balance is a good or bad thing, im simply pointing out theres a history of the devs thinking you have the every day endgame grind content that essentially self sustains forever, and then theres the chase content that you find yourself chasing, occasionally catching it for a moment before resuming the chase.

back in 2013 that was lvl75-77 maps essentially being the chase endgame content, driven by the xp on offer in them, with the 66-70 lvl maps being somewhat infinite endgame content sustain for all.

more and more expansions to the endgame have raised the bar, at this point i feel like the entire map system up to t14 is a kind of freebee sustain, fair to say? with 15 and 16 being sustainable with a bit more effort, and then the chase is the other branching activities: boss fights, uber boss fights, delve, temple, simu, deli, lab. I dont really think theyre aiming any of these to be sustainable by casual or even journeyman vets.





im not rly offering an opinion on that balance state so far, its perfectly legit to make the case that you think some of those should be sustainable by casual players. im not saying thats a good or bad idea, but you are starting with the presumption they are intended to be sustained, seeing that only 50 hours a week type players can achieve that and then claiming that 'the game is tuned for streamers'. im just pointing out that in this regard the game probably isnt being tuned for streamers, its being tuned around the idea that you are not supposed to sustain this content.

people will probably look at what ur saying and think no its not tuned for streamers, its intentionally not sustainable. if you want them to actually change it you might have to actually challenge the idea that this content should not be sustained, thats probably where the real debate is, making the case that this should be casual friendly sustain content.




when the word 'streamers' gets used during a discussion on poe balance theres a good chance the convo has strayed pretty far from the real debate tbh.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

when the word 'streamers' gets used during a discussion on poe balance theres a good chance the convo has strayed pretty far from the real debate tbh.

Well, to be honest, this balance is impossible to "get right". Personally, I think I find myself on the sweet spot of balance: I almost always feel like I'm progressing, even though I always have short and long term goals each league - something to work towards. I KNOW that if I was able to everything within a few weeks of a league, I would quit. And I'm fairly sure that a lot of streamers would too, if this wasn't their job. And if certain stuff wasn't rare - or "not sustainable", leagues would be over pretty quick.

The balance is impossible, because you will always have VERY dedicated players and VERY casual players. You cannot please them both in terms of the feeling of "luck" and the necessity of having short and long term goals. And both groups of players will always advocate for the game to change in their direction, like this thread is an example of. On the other end, KMQ usually comes with a "game is too easy" thread once a league.

Clearly its tuned for streamers.

hoho.

The drops are definately less than 2 leagues ago.
But can we stop the Trump-style hoax stuff about streamers already please? People playing more than you doesn't mean they are privileged.

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leto2626 wrote:

The drops are definately less than 2 leagues ago.
But can we stop the Trump-style hoax stuff about streamers already please? People playing more than you doesn't mean they are privileged.

but that shouldn't be the case, because it's a TEMPORARY league and normal humans can't play the game as much as streamers do ... every league you need a build that's like 2 mirrors to have FUN ... or maybe the ggg company has some side hustle rmt thing and just lookin for swipers...

Streamers get priority on everything. Ziz exposed this awhile ago.