The most important issue has not been adressed properly

arpg's are about excitement to find rewards, there is no excitement cashing in after having invested into content if the outcome is to be clearly in your favour

investment should increase the chance to get more rewards, not turning the game into a job.

I'm at the other end of the scale... the lower end. I don't get to end game, I hate trading and won't buy my way to victory.

Loot when starting out is just dog shit. When you're first gearing up through the campaign you should be getting options but that's not how it works now. It was much better prior to the change.

Now that Ruthless is a thing in the game, GGG should be reverting these changes so we can actually enjoy the levelling process rather than being starved throughout it.

@vio: the risk is making the content too hard and being unable to survive or kill anything. That is ALWAYS the risk in an arpg.

It shouldn't be the risk of no rewards, it should be the risk of lack of strength. But once you have the strength, you SHOULD be rewarded for it. That is how all arpgs work otherwise what would the point be of making a strong character?

And I agree with impulze: it is a 100% loss of high value items just to enter a juiced map. There is exactly zero reason to do that unless you could reasonably expect that if you are strong enough, the clear of said map would generate loot beyond what you spent to create it. We aren't talking a boss fight where loot varies greatly, we are talking general gameplay here. I am all for bosses offering the CHANCE at high value items, and not guaranteed return for the investment of time/frags it takes to summon the boss. After all, you CAN'T juice a boss. But juicing is different: the risk is the higher difficulty you create, it should NOT be the item return.

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vio wrote:

there is no excitement cashing in after having invested into content.

If there is no excitement in investing into content then why do it ?

We all should know by now that PoE failed to provide proper difficulty/reward ratios on content - mapping & endgame alike since "forever".

Any decent ARPG will scale both difficulty AND reward in a sane way.

With latest patch, PoE broke the fragile feedback loop regarding increasing danger and reward when doing it to above than average levels.
That isn't yet addressed, and TencentGGG will take their time when trying to find the sweet spot as PoE 2 will need to be a hit and they will actually start to face competition next year (multiplayer from Last Epoch, Diablo 4 and other ARPGs), not to mention that the latest 3-4 patches left PoE in a worse shape than at the beginning of the year...

Things are now worse on the upper end, though they simply mimic the traditional EXP conundrum when leveling past 95 with a non-meta (or non-optimized / min-maxed build) - WHY do difficult content to progress to 100 and face deaths leading to stagnation due to the game being too punishing on the difficult end game content?
WHY add difficulty to content and lose your investment until you have that "juicy" RNG strike due to a valuable drop / loot goblin?

IF the only answer they can provide is "because you can" instead of "because it's FUN", devs simply failed to improve PoE and it's gameplay loop...

Right now, the above is sadly accurate, and 3.20 doesn't seem to do enough to address it.
Heck, they never got to address it for EXP gain, so I wouldn't hold my breath that they will manage to address it properly for loot...

Regardless, they actually need better solutions than simply slapping a roguelike within the game and calling it "enough"...
I already dread the future based on their previous decisions and implementations.

Remember that "actions speak louder than words" yet the playerbase didn't manage to get through except in a small way with 5 minutes left on the Doomsday clock... And it's still ticking...

I do hope they will improve and solve most if not all the sour points, but their track record leaves a lot to be desired...

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impulze3 wrote:

...The last days before the new league i farmed 4000 divines, dropped 2 magebloods, a squire and a headhunter just blasting full juice maps with 3 deli orbs.

Thanks for great example of why the nerfs were needed.

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plaguefear wrote:

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impulze3 wrote:

...The last days before the new league i farmed 4000 divines, dropped 2 magebloods, a squire and a headhunter just blasting full juice maps with 3 deli orbs.

Thanks for great example of why the nerfs were needed.

An example from standard with legacy MF at 190 IIQ and 700% IIR along with winged scarabs 18 hours a day nonstop. you will never see those numbers in league, not even pre loot nerf unless you did full juice party.

If you really wanna put standard as the norm then league MF gear should be buffed to even it out :)

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impulze3 wrote:

"

vio wrote:

there is no excitement cashing in after having invested into content.

If there is no excitement in investing into content then why do it ?

yeah, makes no sense.

i meant there is no excitement cashing in after investment if the outcome is clearly destined to be in your favour.

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vio wrote:

"

impulze3 wrote:

"

vio wrote:

there is no excitement cashing in after having invested into content.

If there is no excitement in investing into content then why do it ?

yeah, makes no sense.

i meant there is no excitement cashing in after investment if the outcome is clearly destined to be in your favour.

I disagree, opportunity cost needs to have potential rewards that are over time on average a net positive and not a net negative. at the moment its a net negative even on MF unless you get insane luck and drop a T1 which is rare even with my legacy MF gear.

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impulze3 wrote:

I disagree, opportunity cost needs to have potential rewards that are over time on average a net positive and not a net negative. at the moment its a net negative even on MF unless you get insane luck and drop a T1 which is rare even with my legacy MF gear.

potential rewards, yes. and over time, the outcome should be positive.

i just think player's expectations raised too much.