Another Huge Stealth nerf of god touched

See you next league then.

"

Phrazz wrote:

Nerf 'touched' monsters to the ground, I'd say - and take the whole MF mechanic along on the ride.

Definately get rid of MF, its ancient, outddated and completely against any modern RPG-path you could take. It also fixes a lot of loot-balancing and group-play.

"

Vennto wrote:

Definately get rid of MF, its ancient, outddated and completely against any modern RPG-path you could take. It also fixes a lot of loot-balancing and group-play.

While I agree with most of what you are saying, I want to bring a quote from Mikrotherion from another thread:

"

When you say that it is an OUTDATED mechanic, it implies that it was OK in the past. Why was it there in the past? If it had a purpose then, why does it not have a purpose now? What changed?

People use the word "outdated" in every corner of criticism, like it means something, while all they are doing, is using the word in lack of other arguments. 99% of every game developed these days, are being formed based on the "reach every player" blueprint, where every thing is easy, straight forward and aimed to please everyone. Is every mechanic that doesn't fit this blueprint suddenly "outdated"? When was the right "date", and why was it right?

It should be OK to call a mechanic "bad" without trying to seem overly clever by using "outdated" instead, just as an attempt at finding some substance in your argument.

"

Phrazz wrote:

People use the word "outdated" in every corner of criticism, like it means something, while all they are doing, is using the word in lack of other arguments. 99% of every game developed these days, are being formed based on the "reach every player" blueprint, where every thing is easy, straight forward and aimed to please everyone. Is every mechanic that doesn't fit this blueprint suddenly "outdated"? When was the right "date", and why was it right?

It should be OK to call a mechanic "bad" without trying to seem overly clever by using "outdated" instead, just as an attempt at finding some substance in your argument.

But... who is this for? Your comments seem like intellectual grandstanding, when its entirely unnecessary.

The "outdated" criticism can require context at some times depending on the situation, but at others, if we are having an honest discussion, it's just a needless point of contention having to detail it further, all the time.

Like the trade manifesto. It IS outdated. Due to many changes in looting, 3rd party tools, trade sites, discord channels, and more. Do we really have to go through all that everytime its discussed, or do we at some point come to an agreement on what the arguments are?

It's the same here. Do we really have to get into the specifics on why Rarity/MF are just flat out unnecessary now? It was definitely something needed in Diablo 20 years ago, but it's not now. You can gate rewards through monster encounters and difficulty. Boss fights and mob drop pools, league mechanics, Atlas passives, AN modifiers, rng gambling mechanics, and a whole bunch of other shit.

Stating that "outdated" is a tool used for weak arguments, is in fact, a weak arguement for conversations and topics that are well established.

If people want to be the guy to ask for a "source" on every comment, or ask for context and detail on topics that have been debated ad-nauseam, then they can go ahead. I think its exhausting.

"

Flaashwood wrote:

So im rank 1 MF on poe ninja and I clearly see they nerfed the god touched mobs again over these past 3 week, im so sick and tired of them adjusting why can't we have fun!?
it's ok i will find a new game.
Maybe if enough people leave the game they will actually put some work in it.
Sirus is dead" Qvote so is PoE!

Source: Trust me bro?

Oh well.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

But... who is this for?

You, apparently, as you chose to reply.

Anyhow, you are right in several point here. My post was merely an outburst of frustration based on misplaced use of the word "outdated". Magic find has never been a good mechanic and never made a game better. It has never been "date correct" nor has it been "outdated". It has always been, and will always remain "bad".

You "definitely" think it was a good mechanic in Diablo 2? It wasn't a necessity then, and has never been a necessity in PoE.

And I'm not going into yet another trade discussion with you. We're just on two completely different sides when it comes to the definition of "want" and "need", and how a game survives based on the latter. I will ALWAYS think that loot based games need some limiting when it comes to trade, and some people will ALWAYS view that as "outdated" without wanting or being able to understand the reasons behind the limitations. And while the trademanifesto itself is outdated as all manifestos get years after their release, the ideas/philosophy themselves aren't.

"

Vennto wrote:

Definately get rid of MF, its ancient, outddated and completely against any modern RPG-path you could take. It also fixes a lot of loot-balancing and group-play.

Come on man, MF is the symbol of this game, it exists in all leagues and all levels since the beginning of the game.
It's a specific playerbase more like a league in all leagues...

Most of the negativity that is said against MF-ers is related to the so-called "loot goblin" stuff.
It's just plain crap and has nothing to do with the actual MF build.
Just as the term "loot goblin" suddenly became an internet "meme" in POE.

"

Phrazz wrote:

Magic find has never been a good mechanic and never made a game better. It has never been "date correct" nor has it been "outdated". It has always been, and will always remain "bad".

You "definitely" think it was a good mechanic in Diablo 2? It wasn't a necessity then, and has never been a necessity in PoE

I think that's really unfair, and revisionist history at its finest.

At the time Diablo was revolutionary in the arpg genre. They didnt have the advantage of previous experiences, or a blueprint to work from from other developers.

It wasnt a live service game, like how it is today, and the only way to modify the difficulty and drop rate was through multiplayer, /player8, or MF. Again I think its wildly unfair to look at what PoE has for options to modify looting, item affixes, gearing, and grinding, compared to what Blizzard North had 20+ years ago in their development scope.

And yeah we dont have to rehash the trade debate. That horse is glue lol. I dont agree with the notion that philosophy/ development strategy is beyond adaptation as years go by and things manifest that GGG may not have anticipated previously. It reeks of developmental hubris and stubbornness. But again that's my view on it, I know we dont see eye to eye on it.

Personally, I've always thought that MF is a shitty mechanic. It is also really hard to balance. It typically rewards those that have a lot already anyways (because otherwise you cannot stack it), or leads to weird/dumb stuff like MF cullers. Do I like any of that? No. Have I ever liked any of that? No. Especially when it competes with other stats, I just think it is an unfun mechanic.

And yes, that was already true in D2. Never liked it there either, never really used it. Never used it in PoE. Just not my cup of tea. Is it outdated because of that? No idea, I still think it is bad, whether outdated or not.

Now with the loot goblins, the balance has swung in favor of "MF is required" or getting a culler when you find one. Which is extremely, well, immersion-breaking, gameplay-breaking and just straight up annoying. So, if I had to choose: Remove loot goblins. Removing the entire MF mechanic along with it is not a necessity, but I certainly would not miss it, I'd be happy to see it go.