Big Ducks killing it on whats wrong with the game and how to fix it.

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koskesh539 wrote:

All good, thanks for clarification. The thing is though that it takes time to gain experience. For a lot of people it´s too much time so they default back to what everybody knows, you know what I mean? Grace, Deter and Def Banner or whatever is standard. Back in the day, when Vaal RF was normal everyone had it too, even though it didn´t even work on bosses.
Now to get to the root of the issue at hand.
How does GGG want to change that? Everyone now needs to put a lot of time into a Build? What if the entry cost is at a point where people don´t want to invest their hard earned money into something they don´t know will work? And by not working I take a T16 Map with full passive atlas tree as a standard, never mind ubers and such. I have played a fair bit since 3.10, so have you since, I think Synth you said.
But people with maybe up to five leagues experience might struggle a lot more, right?
My intention, and every single post I make, even though at times with the wrong attitude, is to maybe have some sort of influence, no matter how small it may be, to make the game more accessible for more people. This league in particular I experienced a rapid breakdown of the community with so little players playing that it was stunning.
Hope I was able to clarify my position as well.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

That's honestly among the biggest bullshit i've heard so far in this forum.

High build diversity means (insert my very own opinion here)

Trying to sell (other opinion different to mine) is idiotic.

Like did you EVER even bother to fight Uber Sirus oder Uber Exarch or are you just talking about things you don't know shit about? (you need to be a noflife kiddo to talk to me)

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TemjinGold wrote:

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koskesh539 wrote:

All good, thanks for clarification. The thing is though that it takes time to gain experience. For a lot of people it´s too much time so they default back to what everybody knows, you know what I mean? Grace, Deter and Def Banner or whatever is standard. Back in the day, when Vaal RF was normal everyone had it too, even though it didn´t even work on bosses.
Now to get to the root of the issue at hand.
How does GGG want to change that? Everyone now needs to put a lot of time into a Build? What if the entry cost is at a point where people don´t want to invest their hard earned money into something they don´t know will work? And by not working I take a T16 Map with full passive atlas tree as a standard, never mind ubers and such. I have played a fair bit since 3.10, so have you since, I think Synth you said.
But people with maybe up to five leagues experience might struggle a lot more, right?
My intention, and every single post I make, even though at times with the wrong attitude, is to maybe have some sort of influence, no matter how small it may be, to make the game more accessible for more people. This league in particular I experienced a rapid breakdown of the community with so little players playing that it was stunning.
Hope I was able to clarify my position as well.

Yep I hear you on that. I started in Legion then skipped to Delirium (work got crazy so I skipped Meta and Blight).

The thing is, GGG seems to WANT this. It's not an accident. In their eyes, success (and therefore diversity) is measured by skill and experience. I don't think they actually want a game where great diversity is possible for the average joe. They don't want a game like all the others out there where the base expectation is that anyone who wants to clear all content can. And I guess in some ways, that mentality does keep me coming back because I am kind of sick of the handholding and coddling most other games have. In this game, it feels like if you want to clear it all, you have to earn it.

But in a game like this where everyone wants to clear it all, most don't have the patience or time to acquire the needed knowledge to do so. So as per human nature, they shortcut. They copy someone who presumably can (I say presumably because, while most can, some content creators misrepresent their builds for the sake of popularity). Then you have this cascade of failure from poor builds being copied but also strong builds copied poorly.

When a game is this complex and failure is this likely, it doesn't matter how balanced the skills are--there will never be build diversity because most people aren't making builds, they are just copying. That's not to say I think the state of balance is anywhere good. But even if it were, I don't think the diversity issue will ever be solved.

I think a good start though would be, when a build gets popular in a league, maybe don't auto-nerf it. Maybe look at why it's popular (i.e. is it because it works but barely which is better than the myriad of ones that don't work). And if it's popular but not overly busted, maybe set that as the baseline and tune other skills to match it in viability. Some things are busted and need that nerf. But was it really necessary to hit Cyclone so hard that only the people with mirror gear can play it? I think many people (I was one of them) loved Cyclone because the skill is fun, not because it's overpowered (this is evidenced by how many still try to play it every league despite how unviable it is now).

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auspexa wrote:

elusive sucks without nightblade and you can only have fortify as a ranged build on champion, so yeah they are pretty much inaccessible to ranged builds

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plaguefear wrote:

What a load of crap, when the meta is RF the game is in a bad state.

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TemjinGold wrote:

When a game is this complex and failure is this likely, it doesn't matter how balanced the skills are--there will never be build diversity because most people aren't making builds, they are just copying. That's not to say I think the state of balance is anywhere good. But even if it were, I don't think the diversity issue will ever be solved.

I think a good start though would be, when a build gets popular in a league, maybe don't auto-nerf it. Maybe look at why it's popular (i.e. is it because it works but barely which is better than the myriad of ones that don't work). And if it's popular but not overly busted, maybe set that as the baseline and tune other skills to match it in viability. Some things are busted and need that nerf. But was it really necessary to hit Cyclone so hard that only the people with mirror gear can play it? I think many people (I was one of them) loved Cyclone because the skill is fun, not because it's overpowered (this is evidenced by how many still try to play it every league despite how unviable it is now).

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auspexa wrote:

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plaguefear wrote:

What a load of crap, when the meta is RF the game is in a bad state.

Dude, you didn't even play the league. I swear poe players are something else. Not to mention how irrelevant your argument is

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auspexa wrote:

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plaguefear wrote:

What a load of crap, when the meta is RF the game is in a bad state.

Dude, you didn't even play the league. I swear poe players are something else. Not to mention how irrelevant your argument is

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plaguefear wrote:

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auspexa wrote:

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plaguefear wrote:

What a load of crap, when the meta is RF the game is in a bad state.

Dude, you didn't even play the league. I swear poe players are something else. Not to mention how irrelevant your argument is

I was very clear, RF is the most boring build in history, the only time it is meta is when the league is garbage and other options are not able to handle it.
I have played since piety was the boss of the game and this has never changed.
Also, i clearly did play this league i played a venom gyre raider, quite strong quite boring being 1 shot constantly through cap suppression and evasion.

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TemjinGold wrote:

it doesn't matter how balanced the skills are--there will never be build diversity because most people aren't making builds, they are just copying