Did the Defensive rework actually make things worse?
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From what I've seen EHP means next to nothing. This is because you can have high EHP yet poor life/ES recovery and still die a lot after multiple hits.
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" I dont think so. The worst offenders are things like 'Void Jaguar' leap slam (attack) boosted by phys->ele->chaos conversion AN mods. Also particularly bad are 'Soul Eater' rares in enclosed spaces. And most of the bad 'Soul Eater' encounters I remember were fast moving attackers - like Bone Rhoa in Delve. Not saying that there are no bad casters. But certainly not the majority. "Thats IMO not the reason. The reason is simply that spell suppression is reliable and cheap. Not that spells are more dangerous than non-spells. You cant get 50+% less for non-spells anywhere for that price. No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
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" I gotta say... i never imagined someone would just shrug off stuff like magma barrier, light mirage and light sents saying "just dont stand still" and then speaking about dangers like goatman slam, charging rhoas and misscreations variants... I mean, the porcups skipes on death are dangerous, sure, and so are shaper gards, but the whole rest of your list... i think a pack of flame sents with just multiple proj are more treatening than all of those on maps with 8 affixes... And you are looking at the global pick of the mastery on ninja, i already said suppress is hard to characters on the left side, if we filter to just sin and rang, the pick rate of the mastery of crit is closer to 55%, wich is pretty much what you would expect if you exclude dots, glasses and non-crit builds. Yeah, even 100% extra crit chance is no good if you dont focus on crit, the rate of the mastery is quite above the use of critical suport like zealotry, inc crit damg and bottled faith, the only crit-related thing that have higher pick rate is precision aura, so characters that are going for crit are indeed almost always picking the mastery |
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" eHP is just a measurement of maximum damage intake before death. Obviously other things factor into survival. Recovery just stacks into eHP making it stronger. Ideally the more eHP you have the less raw recovery you need since each HP is worth more. I just assume any build has reasonable recovery or yea, it's pointless. The Ultimatum build I mentioned had 800 HP/s Regen, Enduring Cry on 3s CD for 2k +10% per with recover 5% block. I'm not exaggerating when I say that build could nearly stand still in Ultimatums A8, Influenced, 100% Delirious with Sirus firing off his nonsense. The only option I never picked was the stalking ghost thing that ended if it got 3 or something stacks on you, cuz I hardly moved. The Build I used this league had 1.9k HP/s, 1.2k ES/s and whatever massive amount Divine Shield gives cuz I was either full ES/HP or dead since despite using all Defense Auras and having more regen, it's nowhere near the eHP of the Ultimatum character. "Never trust floating women." -Officer Kirac
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" I am not talking about the regular misscreations, i am talking about the Eater of Worlds version of them that does damage on the level of pinnacle bosses. As for the other 2, it's not something i consider a threat since my builds tend to have high armor/phys mitigation but i've seen quite a few complaints about them both here and on reddit so i added them but yeah probably not the most meaningful examples. The big difference between those things and AN on hit abilities is that the latter has a clear telegraph and long ass wind up. If you just play using stutter step like honestly anyone who plays POE endgame for more than a month should be, they can't hit you. Like never. You don't even have to pay attention to them. They all require you to stand in place for 1 or 2 seconds, that doesn't happen unless you mess up. And i say that as someone who predominantly plays "real melee". I've had situations with heralding obelysk rares spawning from a breach that i triggered in a delirium map and that shit didn't even touch me once. As for the second paragraph, you didn't say anything about characters on the left side using suppression in your last post. You said every character under the sun uses it. Yes, rangers typically use it and you'll find a high percentage if you limit it to them but honestly, that says like nothing about the importance of suppression and falls completely flat as an argument. Rangers using suppression is like Marauders using armor, it's the natural thing to do for them. That doesn't say a thing in regards to your statement that suppression is absolutely mandatory since this is just one class. Last edited by Baharoth15#0429 on Oct 17, 2022, 3:37:30 AM
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" You need to use an example that isn't Doryani's which is already extremely OP and entirely crutched on armour afterwards lol, like don't use dreamfeather armour stacker either then say look you have to use them. Builds that aren't crutched don't get over 1 mil that easily its part of whats wrong with the overall game balance since expedition. Agree about the improve mana reserves I personally found that one strange, I expected wrath/anger/hatred to be on their corresponding ailment wheel and pride on pure physical but then they were simply absent. My point remains though that from 3.15 to 3.16 we got significant defence improvements especially from auras but you could still play without them. Players swapped because it was attractive to do so they could have kept going with the previously used ones but felt the increased defence was now valuable enough at x% per point. Last edited by Draegnarrr#2823 on Oct 17, 2022, 3:34:00 AM
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" That was the point of my first post. " Right now build diversity is at an all time low because we lost many universal defensive layers in exchange for simply stacking Armor/Evasion + MaxRes/SpellSupression. It's not Doryani's, least not far as I went with it, 18mil out of theoretical 40mil. Any decent Spell build will get you 18mil or CoC bow build. Even some melee if you dare. If your build can't break 10 mil then just put it in the pile of dead builds. Some builds got 9 years of power creep in 3 leagues while others are still in the state of Expedition. There's a massive power discrepancy that isn't worth dealing with. I have 5 builds I can't play right now. The Ultimatum build stood out for me because it was the lowest DPS I've ever made. I played Expedition for like a week and skipped AN so this mess is what I came back to. (Easy to break 10 mil DPS without Auras. Harder to break even 80k eHP with them) "Never trust floating women." -Officer Kirac
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You don't need defences for basically any content with 10mil dps aside from swarmed with damage reduction (ie delirium) I don't know why people use these things as measuring sticks.
EHP is notoriously abused by the playerbase and completely useless to use as a comparator too like I've seen players who think their character is invincible and its total bullshit and characters that think that its shit and they've got 25k maximum hit phys and 200k overall. what defensive layers did we lose? Glad got bopped sure, IC got bopped but I'm pretty sure that was well before expedition and ultimatum well before everything lol. I'm not really disputing what your saying here but i think we have completely different frames of reference, I wouldn't have any builds if i had to burn <10mil dps builds on HC an exceptional build does 3mil and still has the necessary defences. I think you are mistaken about defences we lost though, I could have stockholme syndrome from GGG's changes but I can't think of anything defensively worse now than Ultimatum aside from they absolutely hosed DPS which cut into defences by proxy (as they come from the same pool). Meanwhile we got better shield mods, cheaper defensive auras, buffed defensive auras, cheaper block, much cheaper maxres, spell suppression, increased armour value, easier access to endurance charges and PDR. The only thing we definitively lost that I can remember is they gutted blind and flasks are a little worse overall. |
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" Ehhh, if you say AN have a clear telegraph, well, so does everything else in the game, really... if you are always moving the misscreations you mentioned shoudnt be able to hit you since their projectiles are not hitscan, its perfectly possible to just circle-strafe those things(and i understand you were talking about eater misscreations, thats why i said variants, and heck, no, their damage output is nowhere near what you mentioned, for one, if you just take your own advise to not stand still, you should not be hit more than once or twice per salvo and even if you stand still for a good 2 seconds, their damage is still nowhere as punishing as AN mods, unless you are talking about 8-mods maps with quadruple extra damage) As for what i said, i clearly said toons on right use suppress and those on left use block. And the argument is that suppress is too mandatory atm. If you have a character that starts near suppression and you dont want to go glass cannon, it automatically becomes no-brainer. Compare the utility with evasion, capping suppress is much more important than any increase of evasion |
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Eh i am tired of this... we clearly play different games here so let's just agree to disagree regarding the threat level of certain mobs/mechanics.
Its pretty clear already that you don't think suppression is mandatory in the actual meaning of the word (i.e everybody absolutely has to use it) but merely very convinient and strong if you have easy access to it (i.e are on the right side of the tree) and i fully agree with that so no point continuing this. " So much this, good to see i am not the only person thinking like that.. Last edited by Baharoth15#0429 on Oct 18, 2022, 5:52:50 AM
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