"Garbage Loot" Lets talk about it.

Playing SSF and indentifing everything. Holy crap this game is just piss poor design. I'm honestly just dying for Last Epoch and Diablo IV to release at this point.

Why have ARPG game that you don't even care about loot drops?
I play this SSF for the fun of ID'ing ground loot, but it's obvious the system is borked.

I go play Trade and am bored AF because I still ignore the loot and just BUY it on a whipster trade SYSTEM.

Like WTF...

This game is just a screen exploder currency farmer. It has no combat substance and no fun of looking for loot.

Zzzzzzzzz.

Live Service Diablo IV and Last Epoch please SAVE me.

Yes, Path of Exile you're so cool with all builds and complexity, but it means JACK ALL when the game part of your game is BORING AF.

Also, your D2 old men playerbase is getting older and each year closer to death means we don't have TIME FOR THIS shit.

"
JakeCourtney wrote:
Playing SSF and indentifing everything. Holy crap this game is just piss poor design. I'm honestly just dying for Last Epoch and Diablo IV to release at this point.

Why have ARPG game that you don't even care about loot drops?
I play this SSF for the fun of ID'ing ground loot, but it's obvious the system is borked.

I go play Trade and am bored AF because I still ignore the loot and just BUY it on a whipster trade SYSTEM.

Like WTF...

This game is just a screen exploder currency farmer. It has no combat substance and no fun of looking for loot.

Zzzzzzzzz.

Live Service Diablo IV and Last Epoch please SAVE me.

Yes, Path of Exile you're so cool with all builds and complexity, but it means JACK ALL when the game part of your game is BORING AF.

Also, your D2 old men playerbase is getting older and each year closer to death means we don't have TIME FOR THIS shit.



Yeah, it's actually interesting that while D3 has worse build diversity/mechanics, loot is better because there isn't as much, and it has a better chance of being useful.
POE simply has too much RNG baked into items. 6 affixes with 8 tiers, plus sockets, plus colors, plus links.
"
Jerexil wrote:
I agree to most posted arguments.

The mod pool is extremly large and the tier levels made this even worse.
So a dropped item had a small chance to be good "enough".
But the chance exist(ed).

I think there are 2 main reasons which nullify this chance nearly totaly:

1) It takes too many time to find this "good" items because items have to be idientified (in inventory!) and checked manually.
A loot filter helps a little for non rares only.

2) Upgrading ("crafting") items has too many complex mechanics and was nerfed patch by patch.

So it's much easier and in most cases cheaper to take the time and search and buy an item.

GGG had made the "clever loot" mechanic in Heist which was the start of a posssible solution.
I think they don't try to fix their loot problem since that because they want to do that in PoE 2 - as I would.


Saying good items have a "small" chance of dropping is the understatement of the century.

Take the popular tri-elemental claw. You want:

Adds (68-92) to (136-157) Cold Damage (T2, or better)
Adds (74-101) to (150-175) Fire Damage (T2, or better)
Adds (13-17) to (247-286) Lightning Damage (T2 or better)
(23-25)% increased Attack Speed (T2 or better)
Some sort of critical chance or multiplier.

Plug that into Craft of Exile, and ask. "Hey Alexa, how many chaos orbs would I have to spend to get that item?"

The answer would be 221,150,826. So you have a chance in over 200 million to find that claw on the ground.

Start demanding T1 in some of the modifiers, and that number jumps to BILLIONS.

The only way to make any use of the crap that's on the ground is "crafting" (i.e., gambling). Find an item with a couple of good modifiers, and try to craft it into a usable state.

That, too, keeps getting nerfed.

But let me give you another example, this one on crafting. Take these shields:



These are shields that I've been having to craft myself because they're too niche for a particular build I like. A couple of leagues ago, you'd craft them like this:

Use orbs of alteration to get Life + T1 Spellblock OR T2+ Block
Regal for the double block.
If hit, great, if not, scour and restart.
Block suffixes, conqueror exalt slam.
>50% chance it went according to plan, otherwise scour.
Craft +Armour
Optional: Augment with harvest for what you want (life, physical, your choice, before slam, by blocking the prefix).

The first step, alts+regal, would take about 2.5k orbs and some regals and scours. The rest were just as described.

Then, in their infinite wisdom, GGG decided to move most of the affixes from the conqueror orbs to the general pool. It was just a few modifiers, mind you. But because of the combinatorial explosion of having so many damn affixes in every pool, the result was that instead of ~2.5k orbs of alteration, one would need over 70k orbs of alteration to complete the first step of the craft today.

Good luck getting the shield now. The only option is to spam essences (one needs >400 essences to hit double block and high tier life), then try to salvage the item with YOLO annuls and crafting without having the option to reroll/wipe prefixes.

And that was just a small change of moving a handful of modifiers into the general pool.

It's psychotic. They've made an ARPG where the chances of actually finding good items on the ground are akin to winning the lottery, and refuse to rein in the insane combinatorial explosion they've created for randomly rolled items. They could remove all vanilla rare drops from the game and the result would be so close to unnoticeable it might actually be a welcome change of pace - it'd at least be honest about the usefulness of dropped items.

One of the common retorts is that item drops have to be rare because the game is balanced around trade.

To that I say: You can't trade what you don't have. If the very good, chase items can't drop, all the trade in the world won't fix the problem. They're coming from crafting, and the drops aren't balanced around anything - they're just plain garbage.

EDIT: Clarification on the craft.
Last edited by Walkiry#7196 on Oct 21, 2022, 1:39:59 AM
"
Walkiry wrote:
"
Jerexil wrote:
I agree to most posted arguments.

The mod pool is extremly large and the tier levels made this even worse.
So a dropped item had a small chance to be good "enough".
But the chance exist(ed).

I think there are 2 main reasons which nullify this chance nearly totaly:

1) It takes too many time to find this "good" items because items have to be idientified (in inventory!) and checked manually.
A loot filter helps a little for non rares only.

2) Upgrading ("crafting") items has too many complex mechanics and was nerfed patch by patch.

So it's much easier and in most cases cheaper to take the time and search and buy an item.

GGG had made the "clever loot" mechanic in Heist which was the start of a posssible solution.
I think they don't try to fix their loot problem since that because they want to do that in PoE 2 - as I would.


Saying good items have a "small" chance of dropping is the understatement of the century.

Take the popular tri-elemental claw. You want:

Adds (68-92) to (136-157) Cold Damage (T2, or better)
Adds (74-101) to (150-175) Fire Damage (T2, or better)
Adds (13-17) to (247-286) Lightning Damage (T2 or better)
(23-25)% increased Attack Speed (T2 or better)
Some sort of critical chance or multiplier.

Plug that into Craft of Exile, and ask. "Hey Alexa, how many chaos orbs would I have to spend to get that item?"

The answer would be 221,150,826. So you have a chance in over 200 million to find that claw on the ground.

Start demanding T1 in some of the modifiers, and that number jumps to BILLIONS.

The only way to make any use of the crap that's on the ground is "crafting" (i.e., gambling). Find an item with a couple of good modifiers, and try to craft it into a usable state.

That, too, keeps getting nerfed.

But let me give you another example, this one on crafting. Take these shields:



These are shields that I've been having to craft myself because they're too niche for a particular build I like. A couple of leagues ago, you'd craft them like this:

Use orbs of alteration to get Life + T1 Spellblock OR T2+ Block
Regal for the double block.
If hit, great, if not, scour and restart.
Block suffixes, conqueror exalt slam.
>50% chance it went according to plan, otherwise scour.
Craft +Armour
Augment with harvest for what you want (life, physical, your choice).

The first step, alts+regal, would take about 2.5k orbs and some regals and scours. The rest were just as described.

Then, in their infinite wisdom, GGG decided to move most of the affixes from the conqueror orbs to the general pool. It was just a few modifiers, mind you. But because of the combinatorial explosion of having so many damn affixes in every pool, the result was that instead of ~2.5k orbs of alteration, one would need over 70k orbs of alteration to complete the first step of the craft today.

Good luck getting the shield now. The only option is to spam essences (one needs >400 essences to hit double block and high tier life), then try to salvage the item with YOLO annuls and crafting without having the option to reroll/wipe prefixes.

And that was just a small change of moving a handful of modifiers into the general pool.

It's psychotic. They've made an ARPG where the chances of actually finding good items on the ground are akin to winning the lottery, and refuse to rein in the insane combinatorial explosion they've created for randomly rolled items. They could remove all vanilla rare drops from the game and the result would be so close to unnoticeable it might actually be a welcome change of pace - it'd at least be honest about the usefulness of dropped items.

One of the common retorts is that item drops have to be rare because the game is balanced around trade.

To that I say: You can't trade what you don't have. If the very good, chase items can't drop, all the trade in the world won't fix the problem. They're coming from crafting, and the drops aren't balanced around anything - they're just plain garbage.


Chris, does realize that we have finite time since we're just rotting flesh on degrading bones and the tick, tock of the clock is a ticking.
"
JakeCourtney wrote:

Chris, does realize that we have finite time since we're just rotting flesh on degrading bones and the tick, tock of the clock is a ticking.


You do realize that playing a game and posting on this forum are both time wasting activities regardless of any other consideration and should you be worried about wasting your life you should consider more productive activities, do you?
Telling these developers they need to FIX their game is not a waste of time. In fact, it's quite productive in the fact that if they won't listen we won't have to waste our time on PoE any longer.
i think they are onto something with all the fractured drops, i really like those

problem might be that people dont understand how to use those

also a big problem is the lack of eldrich chaos and alts
d:-D*
+1
I know this is a relatively old thread but....

Ruthless did not solve this problem. It certainly gives more drops meaning, but only because there are so few drops to deal with. Crap is still crap, and it's not fun running around with crap all over yourself.

What we need is ruthless-like loot amount, but with a SMART loot system that deactivates lower tier mods on items that drop in higher tier maps. Or even deactivate lower tier mods AND lower tier bases, with special items being more likely. Crafted items will still be better, but the gap between a well-crafted rare and a dropped rare will be much smaller.

The fractured item showers are nice, but its still just a whole lot of garbage. When I get an ilvl 86 fractured base, but the mod turns out to be a t10 light radius mod in the highest difficulty map....there is something wrong.

We don't need to be showered with great items, but dropped items need to be comparable to the most basic craftable gear. As others have said, you can pretty easily craft +1 scepters and wands that will outclass almost everything that drops in the wild. Hell, a +1 scepter with a crafted mod that you continuously update as you level is basically all you need well into red maps simply because FINDING an upgrade is like dropping a mirror, even running the hardest difficulty content.

It was done too generously, but the closest GGG ever came to making loot MATTER was when they had lucky rolls on talisman drops to try and bring them back from the brink of nonexistence. Suddenly, talismans (which were already not the most common drops) ALL mattered when they dropped. They were almost always an upgrade simply because they were full of t1/t2 mods, even if those mods didn't always fit your build.

THAT is what we need.
Last edited by jsuslak313#7615 on May 15, 2023, 10:39:29 PM

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