UNDECEMBER is PoE killer.

Continued my playthrough from yesterday but put my character on delete queue after 30 minutes.
How to put it into words but this game is simply just residentsleeper.
Boring levels, enemies, bad mobile like UI,bad inventory management, daily rewards and lots of unlockable (annoying) mini achievements D:I style.

I expected it would be less in-ya face with these things but thanks to the demo i can now put this game experience to rest.

That korean p2w trash is PoE killer lemao u gotta laugh

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Coconutdoggy wrote:

Like Lost Ark? lol

Lol? LA is obliterating PoE in every measurable metric imaginable.

That said PoE isnt going to "die", anytime soon. It might be reduced to comical irrelevance for few years until whatever the fuck PoE 4.0 will be. Which if you ask me, could end up being highly disappointing.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Lol? LA is obliterating PoE in every measurable metric imaginable.

Not really, at least not anymore - when looking at LA numbers, it's important to cleanse them off bots. The normal pattern is the daily peak being double the bottom, so after cleaning, LA had about 90k daily peak last Saturday. That's a lot more than PoE does right now, but LA had a big content release last week, so that number is kind of low, actually.

Also, going by steamspy, youtube activity:
LA
YouTube stats: 891,164 views and 3,269 comments for top 50 videos uploaded last week, over 50 new videos uploaded yesterday

PoE
YouTube stats: 506,588 views and 1,429 comments for top 50 videos uploaded last week, over 50 new videos uploaded yesterday
Where LA has more, but again, it's a big release week vs PoE just entering the league's deadzone... of the most hated league in recent memory (ever?).

And on twitch, both games are about equally dead.

So, Lost Ark is bigger, but the game is dying, and will continue doing so unless the new/returning player experience stops being the burning trash pile it is now.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

That said PoE isnt going to "die", anytime soon. It might be reduced to comical irrelevance for few years until whatever the fuck PoE 4.0 will be. Which if you ask me, could end up being highly disappointing.

This, I fully agree with, especially if D4 doesn't suck completely and has league-like seasons.

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Xyel wrote:

So, Lost Ark is bigger, but the game is dying

Sure...ok.

*Also the "cleansing" thing is funny to me, only because MMO's, MMORPG's, and large ARPGs that have multiplayer online, will always have bots, 3rd party tools, overlays, and so forth. Its unavoidable.

PoE has bots, WoW has bots, LA has bots, and D4 will likely have bots.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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Xyel wrote:

So, Lost Ark is bigger, but the game is dying

Sure...ok.

*Also the "cleansing" thing is funny to me, only because MMO's, MMORPG's, and large ARPGs that have multiplayer online, will always have bots, 3rd party tools, overlays, and so forth. Its unavoidable.

PoE has bots, WoW has bots, LA has bots, and D4 will likely have bots.

Sure, but PoE bots clearly don't use steam, because its steamcharts numbers perfectly follow that the daily max is roughly double for daily minimum (holds across genres all over steam).

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Xyel wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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Xyel wrote:

So, Lost Ark is bigger, but the game is dying

Sure...ok.

*Also the "cleansing" thing is funny to me, only because MMO's, MMORPG's, and large ARPGs that have multiplayer online, will always have bots, 3rd party tools, overlays, and so forth. Its unavoidable.

PoE has bots, WoW has bots, LA has bots, and D4 will likely have bots.

Sure, but PoE bots clearly don't use steam, because its steamcharts numbers perfectly follow that the daily max is roughly double for daily minimum (holds across genres all over steam).

I dont know if I agree about that interpretation, its not that black and white.

Just in regards to player concurrency, I don't even want to guess how many PoE trade bots there are for example.

I would also cynically say that lack of bots, simply because of market demand, says a lot more about the state of the game. If the bots and RMT sellers dont see a value in the game, that's saying something.

Anyways, I dont want to belabor the point. Neither PoE or LA is going to die anytime soon, and D4 is likely going to swamp them both here shortly.

Most metrics mentioned here are only applied by sales people. This is an Entertainment and art product. When measuring these, you can go by sales if you want. But for me the most epic movies I remember are the original ones, not made to fit the taste of most and skip things that are controversial or original. The same counts for computer games in my opinion. I could play the same formula again, Battlefield 172, - risk free for developers and easily calculatable for sales department, or I go with something original, different and maybe difficult. Maybe it is time for another large ARPG to be commercial successful since we all have different taste and so everybody could be happy and find the game that suits their taste, instead of the idea 2 game developers fighting for the same people by making the most streamline version of the combinations of both games, which will be shit.

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R3b00t wrote:

Most metrics mentioned here are only applied by sales people. This is an Entertainment and art product. When measuring these, you can go by sales if you want. But for me the most epic movies I remember are the original ones, not made to fit the taste of most and skip things that are controversial or original. The same counts for computer games in my opinion. I could play the same formula again, Battlefield 172, - risk free for developers and easily calculatable for sales department, or I go with something original, different and maybe difficult. Maybe it is time for another large ARPG to be commercial successful since we all have different taste and so everybody could be happy and find the game that suits their taste, instead of the idea 2 game developers fighting for the same people by making the most streamline version of the combinations of both games, which will be shit.

I'm not sure what your point is. This happens all the time. Most gamers, not all, but most, play a variety of games. It's not an either or, but genral consumer interest. Like when PoE lost some concurrency to LA and Elden Ring, neither of which are in the PoE arpg genre directly.

I think it's also worth noting that GGG has pushed their Twitch Marketing hard in recent times, in an effort to expand their scope and appeal. Which is fine as long as your dont turn around and treat those new & casual players with hostility in your design. If you do, then you get what we have. A divided, confused, and sometimes toxic community that doesn't understand what GGG is doing.

Last Epoch is the better game over UnDecember.