Do you wish to grind a hundred hours for another kick in the nuts?

"

StarTraveller_DK wrote:

"Deterministic" "crafting" (as both terms only loosely apply) in PoE is at best super RNG influenced still and every mechanic that has been introduced with a degree of determinism has been nerfed shortly after or outright removed. In addition, the mechanics have been kept away from casuals because efficient use required extreme grinding, trading sim, or RMT.

I'm not holding my breath for the harvest improvements because I'm convinced that all deterministic crafting options in Harvest have been removed or will be shortly. GGG doesn't want players to have a guaranteed outcome when applying currency or crafting. There must always be a significant risk of failure, which can only be overcome through massive grinding.

You think that something might happen in future although it has stayed the same for over 2 years.

Every post so far has been just feels post with nothing to dissect while in reality we have more deterministic gameplay than ever before and you were supposed to like how PoE was "before", whenever that was.

It seems that you are unwilling to make any concrete statements or bring out examples to examine, just complaining for the sake of complaining.

the problem i have with the current game is the pace. like you, i like to take my time. but more than items mattering, i want MONSTERS to matter. the game is a lawn mower simulator, with the occasional rock hidden to destroy your machine without warning.

i'd like to see players have to react to white mobs like you do for the first 5 levels. i want a pack of magic monsters to require SOME form of strategy or crowd control to handle, i want rares to be significant i NOTICE when i fight one... map/uber/pinnacle bosses are good in this regard, but overtuned in the direction of...

one shots needs to stop being the only way to die. if ggg wants to neuter defensive options so players cant make unkillable build... GREAT. if ggg wants players to use pots in RESPONSE to shit they need the TIME to respond. what good does a health flask do when you are never injured, just alive then dead? mob damage needs to be nerfed in line with, or MORE, than player defenses.

this is a monster slaying game... where less than .1% of mobs is even worth noticing. seriously, when was the last time a rare stood out to you enough you even noted the name?

Crafting in PoE was never in a good place and my playing experience has been that anything that was enjoyable to me in a temporary league almost never made it to core or did so only in useless and/or unattainable state.

Eternal orbs offered a degree of determinism in the sense that you could roll back a failure. These were de facto unattainable, but were still removed from the drop pool.

I never got to try beast crafting, but it's my understanding that it's being nerfed over and over despite being behind a massive wall of grinding.

I enjoyed Harvest league, which was the first time that I felt somewhat in control of my progression. Harvest is still with us, but I hardly ever got a build-progressing craft since the actual Harvest league and Chris Wilson said on the interview that certain crafts would be removed from the pool because they're too deterministic. The fact that you may have to trade to (acquire currency to) use Harvest crafts is a negative in my book because that is something that I never enjoyed, but I do like that Harvest crafting will take place in the hideout instead of on the spot.

I love the idea of the crafting bench, but I was rarely able to unlock the meta mods - or even afford their usage.

I loved the idea of recombinators, but felt thoroughly depressed when RNG went against me and all saved up attempts just bricked my items. Hundreds of hours nullified in a few minutes. Recombinators are being removed from the drop pool for being too powerful, though.

I didn't play Synthesis league, but I hear it was cool... I've never found a useful synthesised item, though.

There are probably more that have come and gone, which I'm forgetting. None of what we have or is promised in Lake of Kalandra counts as deterministic crafting in my book. And the general trend to me feels like I have less and less control over gear progression - despite the fact that I'm improving skillwise according to the standard metric of being able to play faster.

I think it's awesome for everyone that love the game's state, but I wish there was an enjoyable league (or game mode) for me as well. I think the game has potential to entertain different player segments if players can look past that other players enjoy the game differently.


PS: I don't think it's fair to say that I'm complaining for the sake of complaining, when the thread is full of ideas ready for adoption if GGG thought that my player segment is one that they want to entertain.

"

Stormy_Fairweather wrote:

the problem i have with the current game is the pace. like you, i like to take my time. but more than items mattering, i want MONSTERS to matter. the game is a lawn mower simulator, with the occasional rock hidden to destroy your machine without warning.

i'd like to see players have to react to white mobs like you do for the first 5 levels. i want a pack of magic monsters to require SOME form of strategy or crowd control to handle, i want rares to be significant i NOTICE when i fight one... map/uber/pinnacle bosses are good in this regard, but overtuned in the direction of...

one shots needs to stop being the only way to die. if ggg wants to neuter defensive options so players cant make unkillable build... GREAT. if ggg wants players to use pots in RESPONSE to shit they need the TIME to respond. what good does a health flask do when you are never injured, just alive then dead? mob damage needs to be nerfed in line with, or MORE, than player defenses.

this is a monster slaying game... where less than .1% of mobs is even worth noticing. seriously, when was the last time a rare stood out to you enough you even noted the name?

Pretty much this yeah. Right now you either kill the screen immediately or the screen kills you a few moments later. You either get 1 shot by the "end" boss or you don't. "Fun" gameplay.

"

StarTraveller_DK wrote:

Crafting in PoE was never in a good place

I never got to try beast crafting.

Harvest is still with us, but I hardly ever got a build-progressing craft

I love the idea of the crafting bench, but I was rarely able to unlock the meta mods - or even afford their usage.

I loved the idea of recombinators, but felt thoroughly depressed when RNG went against me and all saved up attempts just bricked my items. Hundreds of hours nullified in a few minutes.

I didn't play Synthesis league, but I hear it was cool... I've never found a useful synthesised item, though.

My man here has spent hundreds of hours on getting items for recombinators but has been to poor to afford 20C for beastcrafting, 60C for a few rolls on Harvest crafts, 10C to unlock metamod crafts or found Synth item bases to use for crafting that are normally on around ~10C.

All that is claimed after having experience and knowledge on crafting through stating that the crafting was "never in a good place".

Dawg, we've played the game.

"

Kiss_Me_Quick wrote:

"

StarTraveller_DK wrote:

Crafting in PoE was never in a good place

I never got to try beast crafting.

Harvest is still with us, but I hardly ever got a build-progressing craft

I love the idea of the crafting bench, but I was rarely able to unlock the meta mods - or even afford their usage.

I loved the idea of recombinators, but felt thoroughly depressed when RNG went against me and all saved up attempts just bricked my items. Hundreds of hours nullified in a few minutes.

I didn't play Synthesis league, but I hear it was cool... I've never found a useful synthesised item, though.

My man here has spent hundreds of hours on getting items for recombinators but has been to poor to afford 20C for beastcrafting, 60C for a few rolls on Harvest crafts, 10C to unlock metamod crafts or found Synth item bases to use for crafting that are normally on around ~10C.

All that is claimed after having experience and knowledge on crafting through stating that the crafting was "never in a good place".

Dawg, we've played the game.

Thank you for your insightful wisdom on my (mostly) SSF experience (either by league or simply by in-game choice prior to SSF leagues being a thing). We know that you could probably have stated the same point without ridicule if we just let you.

If you actually read through this thread, though, you'd see that the suggestions I've made are intended to make the unavailable parts of the game actually available - even to players of lesser skill, such as myself. So we can all play the game, dawg.

I think it's awesome that you love the game as it is, but that doesn't have to prevent GGG from making variations of the game that can entertain other types of players as well. Your enjoyment of the game isn't threatened by more people enjoying the game in other forms. In fact, a larger player base should only give GGG more opportunity to create quality content.

You should keep supporting GGG with your purchases to show them that you love the game just as I have stopped supporting them for taking the game in a direction that isn't enjoyable to me. Voting with our wallets are the strongest type of feedback we can give, but not the most insightful one, which is why this feedback thread exists.

GG

"

StarTraveller_DK wrote:

"

Kiss_Me_Quick wrote:

My man here has spent hundreds of hours on getting items for recombinators but has been to poor to afford 20C for beastcrafting, 60C for a few rolls on Harvest crafts, 10C to unlock metamod crafts or found Synth item bases to use for crafting that are normally on around ~10C.

All that is claimed after having experience and knowledge on crafting through stating that the crafting was "never in a good place".

Dawg, we've played the game.

Thank you for your insightful wisdom on my (mostly) SSF experience (either by league or simply by in-game choice prior to SSF leagues being a thing). We know that you could probably have stated the same point without ridicule if we just let you.

I think it's awesome that you love the game as it is, but that doesn't have to prevent GGG from making variations of the game that can entertain other types of players as well. Your enjoyment of the game isn't threatened by more people enjoying the game in other forms. In fact, a larger player base should only give GGG more opportunity to create quality content.

You should keep supporting GGG with your purchases to show them that you love the game just as I have stopped supporting them for taking the game in a direction that isn't enjoyable to me. Voting with our wallets are the strongest type of feedback we can give, but not the most insightful one, which is why this feedback thread exists.

Ridiculous claims need to be ridiculed.

You yourself claim to not have experience with these mechanics, yet make statements about what the state of the mechanic is. You cannot know what the state of crafting is if you don't craft.

I offered that your claims aren't based on anything else but just feelings with no clear examples which you refuted but as the very next post clearly stated that you don't have any knowledge on it.

If you want to post anonymous feedback where other people cannot express their varying experience as well or comment on it then you can just privately email your feedback to GGG I guess?

"

StarTraveller_DK wrote:

Thank you for your insightful wisdom on my (mostly) SSF experience (either by league or simply by in-game choice prior to SSF leagues being a thing).

I'm not going to belittle or anything, but since the implementation of SSF or even self-imposing it before it existed, you've been deliberately handicapping your experience. You want to play the game where you fight and earn everything you find and craft, but the core fundamentals of the game have trading baked into it. This means that every good drop and every craft is going to be difficult, because you're encouraged to buy what you need off of someone else.

The issues you have with finding a good Harvest craft or Synthesis base are all a fault of trade, and by opting out of it, you're willfully making the game needlessly more difficult on yourself.

Don't get me wrong. For me, 3.13 when Harvest was at its best, was the peak of PoE when players could legitimately craft whatever gear they like without having to resort to gambling. There was no better time to play SSF than 3.13, but because GGG is so woefully insistent that trade and gambling must be the core aspect of the game, that golden age had come to pass.

"

Kiss_Me_Quick wrote:

Ridiculous claims need to be ridiculed.

You yourself claim to not have experience with these mechanics, yet make statements about what the state of the mechanic is. You cannot know what the state of crafting is if you don't craft.

I offered that your claims aren't based on anything else but just feelings with no clear examples which you refuted but as the very next post clearly stated that you don't have any knowledge on it.

If you want to post anonymous feedback where other people cannot express their varying experience as well or comment on it then you can just privately email your feedback to GGG I guess?

You're completely entitled to express your opinion just like everyone else on the forum and you've certainly presented yourself for the rest of us to decide how much weight we want to attribute your statements. I personally can't attribute much weight to unbased ridicule and you've offered nothing constructive in the context of this thread.

Where are all your examples of deterministic crafting available to a broad player segment?
Where are your rebuttals for how the mentioned crafting methods haven't been nerfed or removed?
Where are your counterarguments for how the suggestions in this thread will ruin the game for anyone?

In what way is your input at all constructive in the good spirit of providing feedback?

You'll have to forgive me, but unless you bring something constructive to the table, I'll be ignoring your posts from now on - manually, since the feature is absent on this forum.

"

Kiss_Me_Quick wrote:

Ridiculous claims need to be ridiculed.

Wrong. Ridiculous claims need to be addressed and corrected, otherwise you open yourself to also be ridiculed.

His claims, although not entirely accurate, hit all the nails that made PoE increasingly worse over the years. Make a league too powerful, butcher it, repeat ad nauseam. Get currency, fail because of rng, buy mildly better upgrade for 1/10th of the cost, blame trade for being too easy.

Instead, you choose to ridicule and add nothing of value to the conversation, [Removed by Support]

GGG thought PoE needed to change. Their choice on how to do it, however, is what's truly ridiculous. Every league GGG introduces better deterministic crafts and then they remove it because it's not "the vision". That's ridiculous AND insane.