Isnt mageblood supposed to be some super rare chase item?
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Nubatron wrote:
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kenbak wrote:
An item that is BiS for 99% of builds, nullifying all other belts, even HH is overshadowed.
I think the droprate not being "as rare" as it should be is not the real issue here.
I think that speaks more to the need for more chase items. HH and Mageblood are the chase items for belt, and there are scenarios where HH is better than Mageblood. I think there should be multiple chase unique items for each slot that cost 100's of exalts. Rare items obviously fill this gap well now with some of the crazy WTF crafts that are out there.
To be more specific, HH is better than MB on maps with juice.
But my problem with chase items is that, there are a lot of belts in this game, but MB and HH are so insane that they nullify everything (besides in the case of HH, completely distorting the original gameplay of the build and activating a built-in god mode). If this game is about diversity then that's contradictory.
Most (flawed) argument here is, "The item is fine because few people won't have it."
Well then, we can say that...
- "Melee is fine" because most go to white maps and do them without any problems"
We know it's not like that....but the argument itself is a fallacy.
Last edited by kenbak#5806 on Jul 27, 2022, 3:44:57 PM
Chase items don't have anything to do with diversity because most won't get them, many that do would rather fund a build than just play with one OP item.
Its good for the game, but I personally think its a little bit bad to encourage a degenerate playstyle (farming only card maps for example) because your design as the developer is by proxy causing players to reduce their own enjoyment in many cases as they attempt to optimise.
Best way to do chase items is very rare boss drops or just genuinely random, then players don't alter their playstyle outside of what they enjoy. Its not really that clear cut though as many obviously enjoy being able to specifically farm it but if it wasn't available i'm confident they would have fun farming something else :p
I agree.
Having these map restricted drops in my opinion creates some noticeable problems, such as literally wasting your time farming any other map that can't drop a MB card. I think lifting map restrictions for div cards would actually be healthier for the game. Yes the counter argument would be 'then players would run the easiest map', but you'd still have a choice on what maps you like over a single option. One might be a bit easier then another, but BOTH can drop every card meaning the choice is down to you. Current system provides no choice.
A system I've wanted to see for years and years now is a map boss buff to drops that increases the more monsters in the map you kill. It incentivizes boss farming AND clearing the map. I think it would be pretty fun to shift some of the loot, like div card drops, to map bosses while utilizing the system I mentioned.
Hopefully something changes though. I felt like I was doing hell baal runs this last league; everything is just red, all the time, whole screen red.
To be more specific, HH is better than MB on maps with juice.
But my problem with chase items is that, there are a lot of belts in this game, but MB and HH are so insane that they nullify everything (besides in the case of HH, completely distorting the original gameplay of the build and activating a built-in god mode). If this game is about diversity then that's contradictory.
Most (flawed) argument here is, "The item is fine because few people won't have it."
Well then, we can say that...
- "Melee is fine" because most go to white maps and do them without any problems"
We know it's not like that....but the argument itself is a fallacy.
I think the idea of chase items also means chase builds for me. I don't mind the possibility of near god mode, as long as it's really hard to achieve. Existence of the possibility isn't the problem. Hell, I would say the existence of the possibility is a motivation to play for me -- even when I had little chance of ever achieving that outcome. The chase is a major part of the fun after all.
I guess another way to put it is builds that crush the game should exist. Items that enable crushing the game should also exist. But the path to getting to that point needs to be hard -- like almost spirit breaking hard. In an ARPG like this one, one of the gating factors is limiting supply through highly difficult pathways and/or low drop rates. The method to get them can be overcome with time and/or skill. There is a third option that allows anyone to get there, but you can't count on it: luck.
Remove the chase, and you remove the motivation for some (if not most) of the player base.
Thanks for all the fish!
Last edited by Nubatron#4333 on Jul 27, 2022, 4:30:16 PM
Chase items don't have anything to do with diversity because most won't get them, many that do would rather fund a build than just play with one OP item.
Its good for the game, but I personally think its a little bit bad to encourage a degenerate playstyle (farming only card maps for example) because your design as the developer is by proxy causing players to reduce their own enjoyment in many cases as they attempt to optimise.
Best way to do chase items is very rare boss drops or just genuinely random, then players don't alter their playstyle outside of what they enjoy. Its not really that clear cut though as many obviously enjoy being able to specifically farm it but if it wasn't available i'm confident they would have fun farming something else :p
I agree.
Having these map restricted drops in my opinion creates some noticeable problems, such as literally wasting your time farming any other map that can't drop a MB card. I think lifting map restrictions for div cards would actually be healthier for the game. Yes the counter argument would be 'then players would run the easiest map', but you'd still have a choice on what maps you like over a single option. One might be a bit easier then another, but BOTH can drop every card meaning the choice is down to you. Current system provides no choice.
A system I've wanted to see for years and years now is a map boss buff to drops that increases the more monsters in the map you kill. It incentivizes boss farming AND clearing the map. I think it would be pretty fun to shift some of the loot, like div card drops, to map bosses while utilizing the system I mentioned.
Hopefully something changes though. I felt like I was doing hell baal runs this last league; everything is just red, all the time, whole screen red.
I think this argument holds true if someone abstains from trading for it, otherwise there are a lot of ways to get an item. I ran Crimson Temple once this league for the map credit. I ran content I enjoyed instead, earning me enough currency to get MB without hating myself in the process. Hell, I wasn't even trying to get the thing but I hit my 40 and decided to f around a little.
Thanks for all the fish!
Last edited by Nubatron#4333 on Jul 27, 2022, 4:33:49 PM
Chase items don't have anything to do with diversity because most won't get them, many that do would rather fund a build than just play with one OP item.
Its good for the game, but I personally think its a little bit bad to encourage a degenerate playstyle (farming only card maps for example) because your design as the developer is by proxy causing players to reduce their own enjoyment in many cases as they attempt to optimise.
Best way to do chase items is very rare boss drops or just genuinely random, then players don't alter their playstyle outside of what they enjoy. Its not really that clear cut though as many obviously enjoy being able to specifically farm it but if it wasn't available i'm confident they would have fun farming something else :p
I agree.
Having these map restricted drops in my opinion creates some noticeable problems, such as literally wasting your time farming any other map that can't drop a MB card. I think lifting map restrictions for div cards would actually be healthier for the game. Yes the counter argument would be 'then players would run the easiest map', but you'd still have a choice on what maps you like over a single option. One might be a bit easier then another, but BOTH can drop every card meaning the choice is down to you. Current system provides no choice.
A system I've wanted to see for years and years now is a map boss buff to drops that increases the more monsters in the map you kill. It incentivizes boss farming AND clearing the map. I think it would be pretty fun to shift some of the loot, like div card drops, to map bosses while utilizing the system I mentioned.
Hopefully something changes though. I felt like I was doing hell baal runs this last league; everything is just red, all the time, whole screen red.
I think this argument holds true if someone abstains from trading for it, otherwise there are a lot of ways to get an item. I ran Crimson Temple once this league for the map credit. I ran content I enjoyed instead, earning me enough currency to get MB without hating myself in the process. Hell, I wasn't even trying to get the thing but I hit my 40 and decided to f around a little.
So I'm specifically talking about which maps to run, not content. If you're just spamming maps, it makes zero sense to do it on any other map then the one that can drop a MB div card. As much as I love Atoll, it can't drop the MB card. Even if the chance is tiny because you're just regularly running maps, alch and go style, it STILL feels bad knowing you can't drop one of the most expensive items, while if you ran crimson temple, it *could* drop.
It's the same reason why lvl 85 areas in D2 and D2R are practically the only things farmed. Yea, you can find your HR's or most items almost anywhere in hell mode, but it feels bad to run anything under AL85 because there's some extremely rare items that *could* drop.
So all I'm suggesting is removing the map based restrictions for Div cards. This specific restriction just takes away player choice for what maps they want to spend many hours looking at.
it shouldn't be this easy to get it. defeats the purpose of a chase item
It's like 200 exalts. Why are you people so hung up on horrible drop rates, bad weights and insanely rare items that take weeks for a normal player to trade up for? It's so god damn boring.
Last edited by DamageIncorporated#7815 on Jul 27, 2022, 11:16:50 PM
it shouldn't be this easy to get it. defeats the purpose of a chase item
It's like 200 exalts. Why are you people so hung up on horrible drop rates, bad weights and insanely rare items that take weeks for a normal player to trade up for? It's so god damn boring.
Because they look at poe.ninja and see that 40-50% of players there have one, so it must be too easy to get. They do this without any consideration (or outright lack of understanding) of how that data is collected and who that data actually applies to. To them, 40-50% of players listed there using a Mageblood seems to mean 40-50% of all players use Mageblood.
I have a pretty good sense of humor. I'm not German.
Last edited by aggromagnet#5565 on Jul 27, 2022, 11:22:46 PM
it shouldn't be this easy to get it. defeats the purpose of a chase item
It took me 4 leagues or so before I got an HH, and yet there are people that had one every league. People have a strange concept of "rare". I still have only 4 doctor cards and can't remember the last time I saw one.... I had to chance and scour for ages over several leagues and limited to when zana map mod was available.
I mean, think of how infrequent actual exalts drop, then look back at the going rate. I've done the 40/40 twice and I'm still no where close to as wealthy as the top 10, 15 or probably even 20%.
Of all the runs I have done in standard I've seen just one mageblood card. I'm not putting in 16hr days running the same map ad nauseum either, but its nice to have something to shoot for other than a mirror.
So I'm specifically talking about which maps to run, not content. If you're just spamming maps, it makes zero sense to do it on any other map then the one that can drop a MB div card. As much as I love Atoll, it can't drop the MB card. Even if the chance is tiny because you're just regularly running maps, alch and go style, it STILL feels bad knowing you can't drop one of the most expensive items, while if you ran crimson temple, it *could* drop.
It's the same reason why lvl 85 areas in D2 and D2R are practically the only things farmed. Yea, you can find your HR's or most items almost anywhere in hell mode, but it feels bad to run anything under AL85 because there's some extremely rare items that *could* drop.
So all I'm suggesting is removing the map based restrictions for Div cards. This specific restriction just takes away player choice for what maps they want to spend many hours looking at.
Yeah I'm on the fence about restricted "areas". I still look at burial chambers differently even though HH fell out of favor and I'm glad crimson is the new one, mainly since no more worrying about a super buffed soul eater boss at the end.
But yeah, I would definitely be more open to mapping what I want vs where one of the most desirable items is restricted to drop. If sentinel sustain was as good as it was during archnem I probably would have done even more, but I end up having to cycle to other t16s just to replace my crimsons.
So I'm specifically talking about which maps to run, not content. If you're just spamming maps, it makes zero sense to do it on any other map then the one that can drop a MB div card. As much as I love Atoll, it can't drop the MB card. Even if the chance is tiny because you're just regularly running maps, alch and go style, it STILL feels bad knowing you can't drop one of the most expensive items, while if you ran crimson temple, it *could* drop.
It's the same reason why lvl 85 areas in D2 and D2R are practically the only things farmed. Yea, you can find your HR's or most items almost anywhere in hell mode, but it feels bad to run anything under AL85 because there's some extremely rare items that *could* drop.
So all I'm suggesting is removing the map based restrictions for Div cards. This specific restriction just takes away player choice for what maps they want to spend many hours looking at.
The content I ran the most was Cemetery maps. It's by far my favorite map. My point was that you can get there through other means in a trade league. Sure, it might not be the most optimal but I think that's a good tradeoff.
