Reduce the amount of loot. Add an Auction House. Make item acquisition and liquidation MATTER
" According to this article, GW2 estimated 316,434 players logged in per day around June 2022. If you follow the link preceding that estimation, you'll be taken to a website that suggests 634,000~ players according to their daily population chart in this month. How many players does PoE have? Steam charts suggests almost 15,000. I strongly doubt the numbers are that much higher outside of steam. GW2 seems to be doing just great despite your claims of bots ruining it. Meanwhile, a slew of inconveniences such as no automated trade and the price fixers exploiting that is probably not doing PoE any favors. " Then it sounds to me like that's the fault of the game being bad and not the bots or RMT. Again, if that were the case, other games like Runescape or GW2 would've been toppled ages ago. They're still standing despite their age, the bots, or this unfounded fear over RMT. And again, they're drawing more active players than PoE is right now. Turns out a game might be popular, because it's fun and enjoyable, and the devs aren't going out of the way to make it worse on purpose just to inconvenience RMTers. " If bots are already a problem in a game that has no automated trading, then there's no reason not to add one. "AH would make it easier for bots to corner the market" If a botter wants to corner the market right now, they absolutely can. There's literally nothing stopping them. An obstacle like no automated trading can easily be overcome by throwing even more bots at it. Why should players have to suffer, because GGG can't be bothered to take more action in fighting them? Runescape had a huge downward spiral years ago when they tried the exact same thing GGG is doing now. They added their own version of inconvenience called Trade Limits, which meant players can't trade items worth less than 25k of what's listed on the Grand Exchange for non-members, just to fight RMT. What was the result? Ingame riots and protests, constant complaints that players can no longer gift useful items to newbie friends, and a rapid decline in player count. Jagex called a vote on whether or not to remove it, of which a vast majority of players voted to get rid of it, and so free trade came back. I was there for that, and while it didn't personally affect me since I mostly did all of my trades through the Grand Exchange, it meant I wasn't able to help any potentially new friends to catch up with me or even give them stuff to help them with things they need. You can read more about that incident here. In short: Fighting bots and RMT at the expense of the players is a losing battle that's only going to kill your game. " Runescape 3 (or modern RS) has 116,000~ active players right now while Old-School Runescape has 86,000~ according to their own website. And somehow there's not enough money in it compared to PoE which, at best, may have 30k players on PC? By your logic, seeing as they have automated trading which makes it easier for bots to corner markets, both RS and GW2 has a lot more money to be made in RMT than PoE by several magnitudes. " Again, like what we have right now? Why should players be forced to put up with shitty trade systems just to fight bots? PoE players: Our game has a wide diversity of builds. Also PoE players: The [league mechanic] doesn't need to be nerfed, you just need to play a [current meta] build! And the winds will cry / and many men will die / and all the waves will bow down / to the Loreley Last edited by Pizzarugi#6258 on Jul 19, 2022, 3:27:17 PM
|
|
" Personally I feel GGG should have abolished the trade sites before it got out of hand. You believe it's QoL but it's not. It's only making itemization worse and worse. Which is the real QoL. These numbers being posted don't help much. Lost Ark celebrated 1mil players online at once. Then after the bot purge they're at 180k. They use bots to make the game seem popular. If you played GW2 at launch then you'd probably know what I mean by it killed the game. ArenaNet is forever blacklisted for me because of the crap they pulled. They allowed bots to make enough money to buy more copies. They double dipped their sales. I'm willing to estimate 50% of their sales were bots first year. It likely remains from their double dip cash gains. You said yourself Runescape has bots. What % of those "Players" are bots? You can't use player statistics to judge much on a game with bots. You have to play it. I don't know anyone who plays PoE through Steam. Point of all this being that if PoE didn't have bots and trade sits to start you probably wouldn't need trade much. This "horrible" inconvenience of messaging would be a far more rare occurrence because GGG wouldn't be adding layer upon layer to itemization in order to counter bot influenced currency. I've gotten a mirror 4 times and each one I sold to a bot. The only thing that keeps this game floating is the fact it resets every league. "Never trust floating women." -Officer Kirac
|
|
" We've had trading since closed beta and even before that. If your concern is itemization, then trading in general should've been disabled before it even started. And I stand by trade sites. Could you imagine going back to the old days of spamming trades in the clusterfuck called the trade chat? That takes me back to the old days of Runescape before the Grand Exchange came out, and both of those experiences were pure pain. I'm all for better itemization, I'd like drops to actually mean something, but if GGG's willing to gut Harvest and skip Sentinel's recombinators going core, then it sounds to me like they don't care and would prefer players trade. " Those numbers certainly do help. GW2 and Runescape are both much older than PoE is and still maintain a sizeable playerbase by comparison. They didn't come out a week ago and then their numbers plummeted. As for Lost Ark, how do we know most of that dropoff weren't players who bought the game, played it, realized it was shit, then quit? Plenty of games that are freshly released tend to have a massive number of players at first, but then immediately drop off after a week or two at most, especially if it happens to be a real bad game. Sometimes the simplest reason is often the most accurate. I very heavily doubt 82% of LA's playerbase were bots. That's ridiculous. " 600k+ is a lot of players for a dead game. Apparently ArenaNet recovered from that incident. Just saying. And I don't think 400k+ of them are bots. Again, how do we know they're bots? Were there reports made that revealed them all to be bots and not just players who somehow managed to game the system? " I don't know how many of Runescape's players are bots, but I doubt it's anywhere similar to what you claim Lost Ark had. And if we're going to go by this argument, how many players on PoE are actually bots? If you believe so many people in so many of these games aren't real, then it stands to reason that PoE is no different. If that is the case, why not just add automated trading at that point? GGG's just hurting what few legitimate players there are in order to inconvenience botters. " That's you and your limited number of friends and associates. I, at least, have one statistic we can look at to estimate PoE's player population. I'm also being very generous and assuming there's equally as many players not using it as there are who do. That means 30k players in PoE on PC at best. " What do you have to believe bots are that prevalent not only in PoE, but in every other game we've discussed so far? Again, we've had trading since before closed beta. Loot back then was absolutely garbage as it is now, the only difference is the trash these days drops in greater abundance. They've had every single opportunity to improve itemization for years, but they didn't. It's not because of bots, they simply chose not to do it. " And why is that? Why is it that this game would be dead if GGG didn't do the league system? Is it because of the huge amount of problems it has like being a colossal pain in the ass for new players? Is it because GGG willfully avoids adding any kind of QoL that would bring in and keep new players, such as automated trading? Is it because they keep piling on more and more difficult content most players simply can't beat piled on top of everything else (remember that Chris has stated back in expedition that most players quit after beating act 10)? Or is it, somehow, because of bots and RMT? PoE players: Our game has a wide diversity of builds.
Also PoE players: The [league mechanic] doesn't need to be nerfed, you just need to play a [current meta] build! And the winds will cry / and many men will die / and all the waves will bow down / to the Loreley |
|
" TIP: You can play the game in maxed out windowed mode and switching between site becomes super easy. I thought most people did that. Heart of Purity
Awarded 'Silverblade' to Talent Competition Winner 2020. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDFO4E5OKSE POE 2 is designed primarily for console. |
|
" Because it happened within the week they added algorithms to ban bows. It really was that bad. They had no bot detection system at all for months after release and the RMT wasn't being punished.  Lost Ark in the west is steam exclusive so those are more or less accurate numbers. 850k down to 240k in a week. I said during the first year GW2 was likely 50% bots. I was there. The bots weren't even hiding their mass farm clusters or their teleport hacks. I've been there for most MMO launches in the past including Runescape though I'm 100% done with Eastern MMOs. There's nothing wrong with trading. It's fully automated trading. Bots are in PoE. That's obvious. PoE caters to a specific audience and that's not new player friendly. They know this but it's also what keeps their audience here. It's flawed but one of the more genuine development models one could ask for being a veteran of a game. I doubt most of us want a Warframe or similar go no where grind. GGG has been making some pretty questionable choices as of late, esp with leagues going core. I feel they have PTSD from Harvest or something and just red light anything that's too rewarding. They've also been pushing more and more weight on itemization for performance which could end up pushing more RMT. All I've been saying is an AH is never really worth the price but it's already been here for quite a while and I don't feel it's had a positive effect on the game. "Never trust floating women." -Officer Kirac
|
|
