Unique far pro builds are obsolete, out of reach via stat links. How2fix. & Why defense build > dps?

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imanubcake wrote:

10 ppl wanting that isn't enough for them to go "okay this needs to be done"
And randomized skill tree sounds like a recipe for disaster

10 liking the randomized skill tree feature, is more people than those who liked starter positions. 2 people? So far.

Randomized skill tree people are way more enlightened, than people who want to suggest to copy other peoples builds. Or option verse option.

Maybe poll them. It sounds tough to implement, tho like anything else, probably easier than the players make it out to be. Would be better than whatever next feature they are suggesting, as for immediate entertainment.

I'd rather problems arise with trying to edit a randomized skill tree idea, than simply staying at a copy guide experience that POE is now. Also I would be able to find the ideas; that they need, to make it fair & equal. Genius at that department.

Tho I'm not gonna rant about randomized trees, as ye most people find that " too tough to implement ", yet they haven't tried so nobody really knows.

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RuneLuthien wrote:

Randomized skill tree people are way more enlightened, than people who want to suggest to copy other peoples builds. Or option verse option.

Randomized skill tree is the most stupid idea ever posted on this forums. You make a tree for a skill, you get gear for both. You cant utilize cluster jewels, you cant use unique jewels.

Planning a tree is THE game. Why even have classes then? Just play scion. Thats your solution. Thats what you want. Equal access to any part of the tree and you can pick any ascendecy you want and use anything you want.

But noooo, lets waste time of devs for something that nobody cares about. Thats not hard to implement, thats stupid to implement.

It's like certain people don't really think.

If there's ONE way to ENSURE that SOME builds become destructively OP while others become even more useless than they are today, it is to "randomize the skill tree".

Yea and it would just end up with rolling a dice until you get what you want to min-max even more.

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Phrazz wrote:

It's like certain people don't really think.

If there's ONE way to ENSURE that SOME builds become destructively OP while others become even more useless than they are today, it is to "randomize the skill tree".

They don't but I think people are putting too much effort in responding frankly, there are solid well thought out answers to fairly asinine questions :p, there are like 6 active threads right now from the same poster talking about sweeping changes to basically everything.

It is a classic case of go play something else, this isn't the game you are looking for and even if it was going to be you are talking years of changes to even get close to what is suggested.

I'm guilty of posting too tbh I know it :(

Its even better. He doesnt play even for a year, didnt achieve anything in game, didnt kill any endgame boss, didnt kill even 1 breachlord, hell he ddnt even get to level 90 in softcore , not even once and yet he feels qualified to make changes to the game. There are words to described such audacity but they would get removed by support.

Honestly tho I think OP is blaming the wrong thing, at least in context.

When I first started playing, I built my characters without guides and making logical choices based on the descriptions in the tree.

It wasn't long until I found my damage lacking and even to this day I'm having to rely on special interactions to help scale up the damage, which in turn limits my options.

Defenses of some level have always been required, but I definitely feel I need a lot more to get by than I did when I started at the mid point of abyss. And of course, the more you dedicate to the defensive side the fewer points you have to devote to bumping up damage.

But aside from things like stacking fuses in explosive arrow for a bigger ignite or scaling damage over time or even a stat attribute stacking like for hollow palm -- it can be pretty tough to scale up damage alone as is before you even worry about throwing the defensives in the mix.

A lot of skills have fallen out of favor simply because they aren't worth using. Unless you've got some special interaction to help ramp up the damage, it eventually stops keeping up. If most (pref all) skills had some special interaction to help scale up their damage, you might actually start to see a bit more variety again.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

But aside from things like stacking fuses in explosive arrow for a bigger ignite or scaling damage over time or even a stat attribute stacking like for hollow palm -- it can be pretty tough to scale up damage alone as is before you even worry about throwing the defensives in the mix.

Have you tried scaling elemental damage and/or crit multi? You can only go to 100% crit chance, but crit multi just keeps going to the sky.

I was the same as you when I started playing. I didn't go by guides, I was guided by intuition - and it didn't go well. Early on in the game I got well and truly addicted to ranged toons (Spectral Throw was my gateway drug) and I preferred Templars because at that time I preferred physical damage mitigation with ES. I wanted to use a bow as a Templar, which was a mistake. Templar is the opposite of Ranger, and as you can imagine, going clear across the skill tree is not optimal unless you optimize it (which I definitely did not). Back then the Iron Grip passive made the trip even longer.

I wound up going through almost every class as a bow user in like manner. They all had distinct pros and cons, but at the end of the day I learned things from each one. I learned to scale elemental damage from the Templar, I learned to grab as many life nodes as possible from playing the Bowrauder, I learned to scale CSM from the Shadow, I learned which nodes are best for bows from the Ranger, I learned to scale ES from the witch - before settling on the Trickster ascendancy for the final iteration.

Only took me 9 years. :-/

I'm still kinda proudish though, in spite of it being utterly lackluster as an achievement, because I did all this myself, without using any guides. That feels good.

Having a toon that stays in the starting area of the tree might limit you, but it increases your knowledge of those passives, and how they work. After you gain that, you can pass through those areas much more efficiently, making the most of all the travel nodes.

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Obright wrote:

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

But aside from things like stacking fuses in explosive arrow for a bigger ignite or scaling damage over time or even a stat attribute stacking like for hollow palm -- it can be pretty tough to scale up damage alone as is before you even worry about throwing the defensives in the mix.

Have you tried scaling elemental damage and/or crit multi? You can only go to 100% crit chance, but crit multi just keeps going to the sky.
.

It's not that I "can't" scale elemental damage or weapon damage - but that given the current state of the game you basically need to rely on some special interaction to scale it up further.

It's like the difference between my two cycloners. Both are pure physical impale, one uses a legacy starforge with 500 increased physical and the other has 1500 dex as a hollow palm. The hollow palm gives up both weapon slots and the glove slots, but ends up having 100% spell sup through dex alone. But besides the extra defensive layer, the starforge only tops out a little over a million where the hollow palm is somewhere between 7-12 mil.

While there is no cap to crit multiplier, you're already investing into crit chance. The more you invest into crit chance and multi, the less you can into health and defensive layers, but more importantly base damage boosts.

Like the last time I saw winter orb do quality damage was as a totem in black zenith gloves thanks to the multiplier.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

While there is no cap to crit multiplier, you're already investing into crit chance. The more you invest into crit chance and multi, the less you can into health and defensive layers, but more importantly base damage boosts.

I just suggested those because I had good luck with them as a bow user. I didn't necessarily mean to scale those in addition to what you were already scaling, but maybe instead of them? In any case since you have to invest in something for damage output, might as well experiment and find the best thing for you. I replaced Phys to Lightning & Added Lightning Damage with Crit Chance & Crit Multi at one point just as an experiment, and my DPS went through the roof.

...Well, it did my version of "going through the roof" LOL! I achieved @750k DPS with my main bow attack, and @1.2m combined DPS from my 4 ballistas.

I tried to balance damage with defenses wherever I could though, so maybe I'm proving your point. :( I could be doing more damage if I didn't do that so much.

I'll tell you a little secret about playing a crit build with a bow however, just in case you might want to know it... if you go for an Assassin Bow instead of a Harbinger bow you can make much better use of the CSM implicit, as long as you have t1 Crit chance on it. I know that sounds counter-intuitive if you're going for CSC, but having maxed out t1 crit chance on an Assassin Bow is almost equal to having a maxed out implicit AND maxed out t1 crit chance on a Harbinger bow, + you get 25% increased CSM + Assassin Bows are usually cheaper than Harbinger Bows. I can get to 100% crit chance without even having to use diamond rings. I still have to use a Spike-Point Arrow Quiver, but not having to use Diamond Rings means I can go for Opal, Cerulean, or Vermillion Rings, or more defensive/res ones.