Unique far pro builds are obsolete, out of reach via stat links. How2fix. & Why defense build > dps?

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

almost all builds path to 2 or 3 different starting zones, its very rare to find a build that stays exclusively in its own starting zone, its inefficient because there isnt enough stuff there. ive played the game for 15k hours im not sure ive ever played a build that stuck in its starting zone.

a dagger witch would go to shadow and if its life based probably carry on to ranger, if its es based move back the other way too towards templar. itll cover 1/3 to 1/2 of the passive tree like most builds do.

Since you mentioned it, now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever had a character make it to end game and not end up utilizing another section. Certain areas are just worth pathing too when you can.


Now as for "original builds" anything I've come up with individually was almost guaranteed to be influenced by outside resources. Anything "original" generally got adjusted or outright replaced as a lot of the more interesting combinations I've wanted to run simply don't scale up well enough to bother with the higher tiers of endgame.

yeah im sure there must be a small selection of builds someone can link us that stay in 1 section. but for most builds, almost all, you cant stay in your start zone.

there simply is not enough life/es, you pretty much have to go to at least next doors starting area to get all the stuff you want. and it doesnt cost you anything to do it because if u spend the points going round in circles or spend it traveling off in a straight line to the distance its still the same amount of travel nodes.


if youre picking a witch and everything you want is in the marauder + duelist section, and you need to path all the way there just to start actually building ur char... thats just a bad choice. classes are more than just cosmetic, a witch has an easier time doing witchy things, thats not a problem that needs solved thats a feature right?

I've done condensed builds with cluster jewels in 1 area but aside from that you don't get enough value and start to run out of priority passives to aim towards, I'd think the median is just above 2 areas with 2-3 covering a vast majority of builds.

T-shot pretty much stays in the "ranger" part of the tree.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

yeah im sure there must be a small selection of builds someone can link us that stay in 1 section. but for most builds, almost all, you cant stay in your start zone.

there simply is not enough life/es, you pretty much have to go to at least next doors starting area to get all the stuff you want. and it doesnt cost you anything to do it because if u spend the points going round in circles or spend it traveling off in a straight line to the distance its still the same amount of travel nodes.


if youre picking a witch and everything you want is in the marauder + duelist section, and you need to path all the way there just to start actually building ur char... thats just a bad choice. classes are more than just cosmetic, a witch has an easier time doing witchy things, thats not a problem that needs solved thats a feature right?

Why would I want " next door " builds only? I wouldn't underestimate starter zone builds, they waste nothing & still have a real theme. I find starter zone builds op, if you've tried a lot of farther builds.

As for " next door " builds, ye those are the usual too. I suppose pro since nextdoor builds means dual jewel user's. Aka the dagger witch is a nextdoor build. Yet a dagger witch is yawn, as the devs expect you to use dagger as the witches main alternative to a melee wep. Aka devs want you to spam frost blades, no thanks. So why would I want the obvious pick. No staves either. & Wand spells looks like some weird lightshow from a 80's school yearbook photoshoot. Not a fan of wand lasers, they need to study Harry Potter animations for some wand skills & get rid of these bright white shiny beams.

Scion gets mid, tho many of the times mid doesn't even save you any path points. & Scion is a lil blonde girl, I'm sure I'm not the only person who doesn't want to play barbie. I want a red hair Scion. & brown hair Ranger. Sadly Hybrid is my favorite theme. I play druid for WoW Classic times.

Still tho:

Starter Zone builds > Other side of the tree builds.
Next Door builds majority of trees > Starter Zone > Other side of the tree (per unique build without mentioning stat stackers).

So other side of the tree builds that aren't stat stackers. Are undereleveled & underplayed.

As for Es Dagger Witch or Sceptre Armor Witch as my 2 witch options next door. Naw man. I'd rather not have the meta next door plans for the tree. Not for avatar identity or anything.

So how to buff traveling across the tree map builds, without buffing stat stackers, & without making starter zone or duel jewel 2 area builds less desired. Fair.

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RuneLuthien wrote:

So how to buff traveling across the tree map builds, without buffing stat stackers, & without making starter zone or duel jewel 2 area builds less desired. Fair.

But why? Why should they waste time and reasorces for something that is against the whole point of this game? You have all this options not to do what the hell you want but to pick the best tools for given task.

Not all options are equal, and thats how its supposed to be. Picking correct class for a build is part of "getting good". The fact that you can brute force some builds with gear doesnt mean its optimal and it should stay that way.

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kuciol wrote:

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RuneLuthien wrote:

So how to buff traveling across the tree map builds, without buffing stat stackers, & without making starter zone or duel jewel 2 area builds less desired. Fair.

But why? Why should they waste time and reasorces for something that is against the whole point of this game? You have all this options not to do what the hell you want but to pick the best tools for given task.

Not all options are equal, and thats how its supposed to be. Picking correct class for a build is part of "getting good". The fact that you can brute force some builds with gear doesnt mean its optimal and it should stay that way.

right.


and this is part of why they added ascendancies to the game, what class you pick should be meaningful. the game needs to balance allowing for creativity and character fantasy with having the choices put before you be meaningful, have impact and allow for it to function as a game. in a game there is a way to win and a way to lose, there is the potential to play it well and play it badly.

the game has to balance these sometimes opposing forces. i think theyve done a great job, theres so much scope in each class to make a crazy variety of builds, but each class still has an individual identity and theres definitely a leaning curve when it comes to making effective choices.

PoE doesn't have classes, it has starter locations on the grid that are usually chosen to support a build. The manifest of identity of these starting locations is minimal, but the impact on builds is strong enough for there to be areas in the grid that go well with certain types of skills (totems/traps/minions/melee/etc.).

Then there are the builds that more or less go 'out of the box'. These are usually harder to make and require more investment.

In the end it's a big stat bench and grind loop. Not an adventure. It has maps that are surfaces where stuff spawns, it does not have a world. It has an old long-neck goof that is good for clearing and lootsplosions, not a holy templar on a holy mission.

Whenever GGG tries to go outside of the usual, it will notice that the current state of the game will just force it to fit in and become a part of the same type of grind or gambling.

For the record, I like that there is better diversity in defense, having to balance it out with DPS. There's plenty of improvements to make still, but it's better than what we had. Going defense used to be path-of-life-nodes (or CS, duh), now the focus seems to be on layers of mitigation.


It is what it is. PoE is not going to change in its nature anytime soon, if ever. And that's kind of ok, if it's the thing you like.

You know I've heard at least 10 people who want Randomized skill trees. So lets not act like " starter positions " is something people find amazing. I don't find starter positions amazing. & I'm sure everyone who wants Randomized skill trees, even tho we know POE is too lazy to implement that, those who want random trees don't give a hoot about starter positions.

For any theme or reason. The authentic POE experience is limiting everything to D2 standards for 10 years straight. That's sooo revolutionary *rolls eyes*.

That's sweet you like your stationary rigged hair colors or stationary rigged ascendaries. Not a fan of either. Flexibility is what it's all about.

The planner is 1/3rd of the game, if your gonna dumb down the planner in any way whatsoever, then you don't know how to POE. Simple as that. Starter Positions is a dumbed down planner, trapped ascendaries also dumb, people copying other peoples builds is lame, not being able to path to the other side of the board without wasting 20 passives on stat links, is not proffered.

10 ppl wanting that isn't enough for them to go "okay this needs to be done." It would not be worth the time spent making it work and they wouldn't be getting money from it either way.
And randomized skill tree sounds like a recipe for disaster