So serious discussion Chris wants Hard Mode his player base want Casual mode
" You know I would buy that if you wrote it. Still waiting on Book #2 btw. ~ Please separate the PoE1 and PoE2 forums.
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OT
Still working on it. It's a lot simpler than 1 (I THINK) but it's from a female perspective so I'm constantly like, 'fuck, do I even have the right to do this now?' and then I'm like 'fuck it, it's MY female character, of course I do'. Still, the amount of research I've done on medieval childbirth and young childrearing is kinda nuts. Any wonder fantasy has magic -- if it didn't, a whole bunch of heroes would never make it past the cradle. Infant mortality rate was so high that people generally didn't *care* about their children until they'd proven they were actually going to make it past adolescence. The notion of 'human resources' was so much more literal back then. Not that mine's set in medieval times (we have spoons *and* forks in the All-Trades Inn, thank you) but there are...facets.
Interesting aside: I was not a huge fan of Legend of Korra but it did a great job of imagining what a historical period would be like with elemental abilities in everyday peaceful. The tech advances in a few generations were friggin massive. Same with Naruto's maligned sequel series Boruto -- when you have all that power no longer focused on war, you suddenly go from crude to almost cybernetic in a very short span of time. (Not that my books will, promise. Maybe. HMM.) Back on topic, the more I read about older ARPGs 'endgame' settings the more I realise they all had a 'hard' mode BUT it was much deeper into the game than PoE's. And it was, without exception, after the story. Obviously the notion of a 'casual' mode in the current iteration of the ARPG, the 'soulslike', is very hotly contended (Elden Ring says nay, the souls-like-like Stranger of Paradise Final Fantasy Origin says yea), but I'd say I fall into the 'yes please' category IF your story is awesome and you want people to experience it without becoming, briefly, pro gamers. Those who want the challenge will take it, in that 'I climbed the mountain because it was there' kind of way. I'd go further and say if you're afraid of putting an easier mode into your game, you are displaying a lack of confidence in its ability to be entertaining sans punitive difficulty. In the case of Elden Ring, that's not true because they're not 'afraid' of putting an easier mode in; they know they don't need one; the world is big and diverse enough that people can make of it what they will. But are GGG 'afraid' to make PoE easier? Uh, fuck yes. This has been apparent ever since they revealed to us that custom leagues would only be customisable in terms of making the game harder. I'm sorry, but if I'm PAYING for a fucking custom league, I'd like a little more control over it than that thank you. Give me a 'void' option and let me go wild. I'd go so far as to say the term 'paranoid' isn't far off how GGG are towards the idea of PoE being anything but difficult, which was sort of charming at first but now just seems a bit...detached from the reality that they made a really good game that doesn't HAVE to be difficult to be fun. How could we call it anything but 'detached from reality' when they explicitly said they 'balance' for someone other than 'normal players'? At any rate, GGG are no where near experienced enough to make PoE feel like a souls-like in terms of 'hard mode' and they shouldn't have to, and a 'casual mode' would piss off the vocal majority stalwarts whose identity is somehow and quite unhealthily entwined with PoE's infamous status as 'really hardcore'. I'm glad I tried 3.18 to get a refresher as to why I don't play anymore, and it'll allow me to go back to observing the game's volatility from a safe distance while enjoying games that respect my spare time a little more. The impact of 3.19 in the wake of 3.18's missteps should be quite interesting to watch. If I like a game, it'll either be amazing later or awful forever. There's no in-between. I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period. Last edited by Foreverhappychan#4626 on Jun 27, 2022, 10:42:19 PM
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Responding to the comment right above:
Thing is, PoE isn't hard. You just have the defences to survive most things 95% of the time until some rng combination of enemies or map mods comes in and kills you in 0.5s. That's not hard, it's just rng. Unless you play some insanely tanky build + ascendancy to survive more or you can choose to never use sentinels or never open strongboxes or do heists or harvest etc etc. PoE is easy, there are hundreds of guides, any noob can follow a good build and delete screens, even if they die sometimes. It would be a hard game if there were no PoB and guides. Ironically, the ones trying to make their own builds are the ones truly playing in hard mode. Thing is, a game like poe should't be this restrictive with builds via difficulty. That's why uber bosses and infinite scaling content exists, for people that want to test their builds to the limit. The rest of the content shouldn't be that hard. But then again, best way to solve this is by adding difficulty options. If they want to keep their vision only 2 options would already work. No need to have easy, normal and hard. Just normal and hard. |
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^ 'PoE isn't hard, you just need to do all this, and just follow some guides and...'
You do realise most of your post is gibberish to someone who isn't finely keyed in to PoE jargon right? Perspective, my dude. Perspective. For some people, most gamers I'd be willing to bet, 'hard' and 'difficult unless you follow these instructions on the webs and engage with a ridiculously crude trade system' are sort of the same thing, at least when it comes to games. And yeah, making your own build is hard mode. Should it be? No. Not with a game that literally calls itself 'PATH of Exile' and has a huge skill grid through which players are encouraged to make their own way. On all of this we seem to agree, so yay. And that's why I said we're not talking about 'hard mode' vs 'casual mode' here; we're really talking about 'complex mode' vs 'simple mode', but of course the word 'simple' offends the delicate sensibilities of some gamers who think they're all that and a bag of chips, so I'm sure the marketing geniuses could come up with a less demeaning term for it. ^_^ The name says it all. Last edited by 鬼殺し#7371 on Jun 28, 2022, 9:53:24 PM
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Creators of threads like these should realize they are doing literally same thing they are complaining about - they are shoving their own idea of "whats fun" to everyone else.
Just because in your mind you think others would enjoy it more than "current version" doesnt make it better. |
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Re: complexity
A well-designed game system can be simple and yet difficult. It can be incredibly complex but if that complexity is facing forward, and used as a proxy for actual player skilltesting, it will have all the appeal of reading the Unix man pages from beginning to end while trying to poop on a rollercoaster-mounted latrine. Making the accretionary bloat of the game its own difficulty sphere and leaving large swaths of mechanical guidance out of the base game by design, sucks. It just sucks. The new player experience sucks, the returning player experience sucks, it feels like WoW Gold Market now more than ever. At least some of the concept of Hard Mode that would fix much of the churn is that it would simplify the game by removing vendor recipes, a lot of "gamba benches", and the huge weeping raw scab that is the trade interface, from the otherwise interesting interaction between player and environment. Alas, that's only if Hard Mode entails ssf, or group play but with items being account-bound. If the devs imagine a trade-facilitated hard mode having anything to offer players sick of trade cartels and magic find and 3-day leavers, they've gone off the deep end. [19:36]#Mirror_stacking_clown: try smoke ganja every day for 10 years and do memory game
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Its funny that people get so mad about posts like these, guys, real talk for a minute please.
The new player tutorial videos are like an hour plus long, like Ziz's new player welcome to maps YT vid for example, an hour and 15 minutes. The fact that we have been taking courses in the game for 8 years like its medical school probally isnt normal for alot of games, you guys tend to forget that. Im not screaming to give everyone an participation badge either, just trying to keep it one hundred for the sake of the arguement. Last edited by JCOH35#4078 on Jun 28, 2022, 7:47:51 AM
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" First off, 1 hour guide for new players...and its not a knock on what Ziz is trying to do, but its woefully inadequate. Also the need for multiple "classes", 3rd party tools, and more, is so completely unnecessary and totally GGG's fault. You should be able, in-game, to see what DPS impacts are, visually, if you take one passive vs another, or change out a gem(or level & quality), or switch out a piece of gear. Or ffs could we at least preview some of the Ascendency choices before you have to pick a class a get to level 30? Could we at least plan out some passive tree selections? Like pretend we are the sentinel passive tree (btw I dont know if this was an intentional skill planning troll by GGG or not, because its enraging) "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44#6905 on Jun 28, 2022, 10:24:00 AM
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Idk, we are discussing something too vague tbh. Chris said Hard mode but that could mean many things.
I can just say that personally I want a sligtly easier mode where more builds will be viable. If I know my build will be strong, I can just play on "normal poe" mode. Having options are rarely a bad thing. I just don't know how they would solve the problem of splitting the community between normal and hard mode. |
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" This, 100% this. PoE is a highly popular game, and people use tons of money on it, because they love it for what it is. A complex ARPG that no one else can offer. |
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