Negative Feedback on the rewards of the new bosses from a long time player

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Except I don't need to juice anything. I can run the maps white for all I care and still get steady rewards.

Then it strongly depends on how you're getting those guardian maps and how quickly you can complete them. I assume you must be trading for them, there's no other way to possibly get them self-sustainably through gameplay. People sell guardian sets on TFT for 78c/set, averaging 19.5c per map. According to poe.ninja, there's only one fragment worth 19c and the rest are worth less. A full Elder fragment set is 57.6c. Even if you chose Guardian's Aid passive, you might get 76c worth of fragments on average per full run before crucible.

That puts you 2-20c below what it cost you to run those maps in the first place. I don't know if you bother juicing your map in any way, so that cost will have to be factored in if possible. This is also assuming you bought the maps on TFT in bulk. If you bought them one at a time on the trade page, then you have the patience of a saint and you're not in a profit deficit for having bought the maps for 2c on average.

That means you must fight them again in the crucible in order to get in the green. If you're not lucky to get a Twisted invite, that'll cost you 39c, meaning you're now 41-59c below what it cost to run the guardian maps. In order to guarantee profit, the invitation must be juiced and you must get 4-5 Crescent Splinters worth 13c each.

Depending on your luck, that puts you 6-11c above what it cost to run the guardian maps and invitation. Do you sell the Elder Fragments here and walk away with 6-11c (45-50c if you got lucky for an invitation drop), or do you commit to fighting Elder for Watcher's Eyes?

Assuming you sell the eyes unID, you might be able to sell them in bulk on TFT for 1.3ex each. With Gaze Into The Abyss, your average chance to get an eye to drop is 35% according to poeprofit. That means you'll make 58c on average per run.

The final tally per guardian map>crucible>elder run would net you 64-99c on average. I really can't say how much more you might make on Maven, since I don't know the drop chances of awakened gems and her passive doesn't help a lot there. It would take you roughly 32 of these runs to even get 15ex total profit which is the average value of a good eldritch boss jewel.

This of course depends largely on how powerful and fast your build is. The stronger you are, the faster you can do these runs. Meanwhile, eldritch guardians don't need very much of anything at all to run and is just as dependent on speed and power of your build. Even if I were to concede to your argument, eldritch bosses have a far lower barrier to entry which still makes them great for poor/slow builds to farm.

Did I miss any details that might change the overall profitability of Elder guardian runs? Genuinely curious.

I don't need to trade anything, I run maps in about 20-30 seconds and they drop from bosses. In fact I have 40+ influenced maps in my stash because I am too lazy to buy maven invitations and kinda don't know what to do with ~130 exalts.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

I don't need to trade anything, I run maps in about 20-30 seconds and they drop from bosses. In fact I have 40+ influenced maps in my stash because I am too lazy to buy maven invitations and kinda don't know what to do with ~130 exalts.

How many non-guardian maps are you running inbetween? With no awakening bonus, you're left with about 4% chance of a guardian map dropping. That's 25 maps on average before you get one. That's roughly close to how many runs it takes to fight an eldritch boss. And you have to do that four times to get a full guardian set. That means you'll have fought 4 bosses in the time it took you to get even 4 guardian maps, not accounting for the fact that it's split between elder and shaper guardians nor the chance of you getting duplicates instead.

If you're having that many brownouts for guardian crucibles due to lack of trade, imagine what you could do instead if you ran eldritch bosses which doesn't require trade at all. You can fight a boss every 14 minutes. Your odds of getting a good jewel from them is far greater than almost anyone else here.

Going by this, that means you're making an average of 14c grinding guardian maps for fragments. It would take you ~210 elder/shaper guardian maps to match a good eldritch jewel in value, plus ~5,250 maps to even get that many in the first place. That's 187 eldritch bosses right there that you could've fought along the way in the total time span of 43 hours. There's no telling what you would've gotten running eldritch influenced maps in the process.

For real. If you're not trading, eldritch bosses are outright better for money. In fact you can kill 2 birds with 1 stone by farming for guardian map drops while running eldritch influence.

Also, if GGG nerfs skeleton mages before they hit whatever build you're running next league, they truly have no grasp on balance and only look at what's popular. :P

last night I was 0/11 for ashes of the stars

on the way there I didn't exactly get anything good

didnt get any jewels from eater that were worth a damn



for a boss being gated behind so many stupid maps with only a 10% chance to get a double influence count....it doesnt feel worth unless you get lucky with the dumb ashes drop or flesh

rng is rng....sure....but considering the time/map gate and the drop rate.....you have to admit its a bit of a dick move