For all the options in this game, why do I feel so limited?

The passive skill tree... HUGE
The amount of skills to pick from... HUGE
The amount of skill support combinations... HUGE
7 Different starting points on the tree (classes)
19 different ascendancies


Any yet, every fun or creative build that I try to put together ends up feeling extremely limited by the core mechanics of combat and fight encounters in the game.

For example:

- Determination or Grace (or both... and some would argue also adding Dread Banner) are more or less a must for survivability. This means taking the mana efficiency nodes on the passive tree, further removing points to be creative with. If 95% of your mana is used for "required" auras, it also rules out other aura's that could be fun or enjoyable... if you die every 15 seconds then you arent having fun anyway.

- Needing to max either block or spell suppression also reduces the amount of points you have to be creative with, because being a glass canon doesnt get you anywhere.

- There doesnt seem to be a happy medium... where you can invest some into defenses rather than going 100%. Its "max it or go home" in most cases. Only going 50% suppression isnt good enough to be worth it. Same for block. Some for only partially investing in any defense really.

- Not focusing on just 1 type of attack means being pretty mediocre in most cases. Even with some support passives that would seemingly help with this. For example: want to play a Melee physical character who summons a pet (herald of purity) to fight alongside? Either your melee is going to be awful, or your pets are going to be awful, or both will be mediocre at best. Even with passives like Spiritual Aid. You simply dont have enough realistic options to advance both aspects of a build like this to even B tier of viability.


Just feels like the designers have over tuned the game so much (especially late mapping and bossing) that you are extremely limited in your build design and build options. This isnt even referring to how they intentionally nerf some skill gems each league either. Its just limited because creativity is nullified by the need for very strict character performance. Stuff has insane life that requires high damage, and stuff hits insanely hard which requires strict defense setups.

Now, I know there are those try hards who spend 100+ ex on a build who can pull some crazy combinations of stuff in order to make something possible that may not have seemed possible. To the average player though, even ones who arent casual, this isnt a realistic option or solution.

Dont get me wrong, I still enjoy playing... its just disappointing each league to have these fun ideas that nearly always end up being squashed by the restrictions in how the game actually plays out.

You just described PoE to a tee imo.

It always been like that, either you go full on something or it is useless. POE is just a game of extremes.

Other examples is life stacking - you need to take almost every avaliable passive and jewel slots of even more life. Basicaly 90% of gear pieces need a life then too.

Same goes for resistances - 75% which is game difition of standard max value, but in reality it is the minimum to survive.

Thats why most builds use some mechanics combos like on hit effects, triggers and conversion since they are basicaly huge dmg multipliers - so free stats in comparing to other mechanics.
Same goes for x% hp dmg which is any explosion mechanic or detonate dead - they huge base dmg stats.

There are few defense mechanics like that too - transcendence, life/es on block, life/es on hit.

I feel like end game success is too hard to accomplish with many builds and the game would be more fun if it was a tad easier. Surely other's may disagree, but that's how I feel about PoE. It's a part time game without a persistent world. So it's not as important to make it as accessible I guess?

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- Determination or Grace ... is a must

Nope. Didn't use last league or even ever.

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- Needing to max either block

Not a necessity and capping is often a detriment.

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- There doesnt seem to be a happy medium

Again, flat out false.

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- Not focusing on just 1 type of attack means being pretty mediocre in most cases.

Plenty of builds have 2 fully supported skill gems as 2x 6L. It's very common to use CC/damage amp spells as well.

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Its just limited because creativity is nullified by the need for very strict character performance.

Choose something 100 out of 130 skill gems for your Google search and your urge for creativity will be satisfied by people who have it.

I agree. I've been playing this game for ages and miss the days I could farm elder or even sirus SSF. The last year or two really amped up the difficulty to an unnecessary extreme.

problem is multiplying multipliers. ive been saying it for years. because the game has layers of multipliers it is impossible to balance. having layers of damage is fine, but as soon as you start multiplying multipliers you lose all control over scale, and therefore balance. and because the numbers are so absurd they have to design for the fringes.

fixing this would upset many people because they would be seeing much smaller numbers... but if the mob scaling was rebalanced it would make for a better game.

and once the game was the difference between viable and other skills wouldnt be orders of magnitude.

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Zewks wrote:

...

- Not focusing on just 1 type of attack means being pretty mediocre in most cases. Even with some support passives that would seemingly help with this. For example: want to play a Melee physical character who summons a pet (herald of purity) to fight alongside? Either your melee is going to be awful, or your pets are going to be awful, or both will be mediocre at best. Even with passives like Spiritual Aid. You simply dont have enough realistic options to advance both aspects of a build like this to even B tier of viability.

...

To at least some degree I agree with your opinions OP, but I wanted to highlight this part because I completely agree with it.

There's almost no room for mixing actual melee and spells, and have them both realistically perform. It's always bugged me personally that I can't make a 2 handed frozen sword smashing melee bro who also throws out a spell on hit, and they BOTH do damage. Yes of course cast on crit works, but all that does is mean your melee is the wet noodle and you're just casting spells with another step involved. OR, your melee hits like it's supposed to, and any non-utility spell is wasted.

The same can be said for anything projectile vs melee. In my head cannon of the worlds perfect arpg, I get to actually play the Ranger I'd like to; Melee weapons with skills that *do damage*, and a weapon swap to a bow for some ranged attacks if I need them that *do damage*.

PoE HAS a lot of mix and match available... if you don't want to participate in any end game bosses, or end game mapping, or end game anything.

Anyway rant over, just wanted to highlight this part of your post.

Well said, OP.

Some key reasons as to why I believe creativity died:

1) [Removed by Support] Eg. A few patches back, they doubled the life of all monsters without retuning anything else in the game.
2) Oneshot mechanics, something GGG aspires to keep, are not compatible with all the subtle aspects of the game. Hence, most players look right past subtle interactions like slowing enemies, chill, stun, etc. Players (correctly) reason that when it is kill or be killed in a microsecond, raw stats are all that matter.
3) GGG equate grinding with engagement. Players in POE are willing to grind it out for some reason. The devs look at, for example, a couple of players running the hundreds of beast maps to find a boss fight as a success, when really, they should be looking at the high percentage of players who refuse to grind to that extent as a colossal failure.
4) Jumpscare screen zoom + pack density + screen effects. The high level of zoom is intended to create tension, really all it does is negate any benefits from playing a strategic, ranged style of play after about yellow maps. The pack density forces AOE screen clear builds and the wizz bang screen effects cluttering everything up negate any chance of enjoying playing a targetted build, or one where a player makes decisions about what to target first, or which monster to, for example, curse. Instead, endgame just a stat check - can you blow up the screen fast enough. This playstyle is ubiquitous, regardless of which colour flash (which skill) you use.

It was not always this way. In the past, players used to be able to seek raw power, or try to complete the game using all the interesting mechanics. Players could also choose to spend hours grinding for a piece of gear, rather than this being essential. Spectres are a great example - now there are one or two out of hundreds which are viable. There used to be hundreds to choose from, and even if they weren't OP, your choice of a unique spectre didn't preclude you from participating in 90% of the game Eg. It used to be possible to beat shaper using only Spectral tacticians.

The result was evident on these forums. A Huge variety of builds would previously pop up in each class's build section - like dozens per week, and general discussion was often full of people engaged in the actual game itself, rather than people seeking motivation to grind away on once again achieving raw, unsubtle power.

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Zewks wrote:

Any yet, every fun or creative build that I try to put together ends up feeling extremely limited by the core mechanics of combat and fight encounters in the game.

GGG: There is a right way to play the game and all the other ways are wrong.