Bartering Tab Idea (Auction House Alternative)

Can we all at least agree that not being able to trade without physical presence in a game that includes delirium, lab, delves, and tons of other content that has harsh punishments for leaving makes no sense.

Keep it the same, but make the trade go through for list price or pop up window wherever the player is at?

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trixxar wrote:

Can we all at least agree that not being able to trade without physical presence in a game that includes delirium, lab, delves, and tons of other content that has harsh punishments for leaving makes no sense.

Keep it the same, but make the trade go through for list price or pop up window wherever the player is at?

I like that suggestion!

The only argument I can think of against it is the idea that right now the basement price for things is basically a chaos. Perhaps the concern is that such a mechanism would make that go even lower then perhaps just make a rule that the mechanism can only be used for something at least 1 chaos in value?

I would love to see a situation where eventually, you dont need to return to your hideout / be in the same area to initiate a trade. You would both still need to be online, but once you party with someone you can trade from wherever either of you are. Less obtrusive to the gameplay, while still maintaining some of the ideas that GGG requires in the trade system.

Here's how I envision it working:
1) All players have a small (maybe inventory-sized) traveling trade stash that you can drop items into before going out of town/hideout. These items will be available to you anywhere in the game at any time, but only for trades.
2) Player A messages Player B to initiate a trade. If that item is in the traveling trade stash, an option comes up to do a "fast trade" which can be done without finding a mutual location.
3) perhaps pure currency would be banned in the traveling trade stash to avoid botted currency flipping. Maybe even have it be purely gear / jewel / gem restricted.

Not perfect, but there it is.

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trixxar wrote:

Can we all at least agree that not being able to trade without physical presence in a game that includes delirium, lab, delves, and tons of other content that has harsh punishments for leaving makes no sense.

Keep it the same, but make the trade go through for list price or pop up window wherever the player is at?

It actually makes perfect sense, since the premise for the current trade system is to limit trade.

For GGG to take any suggestions for trade system changes seriously, it requires that the suggested mechanic won't increase the amount of trade. I haven't seen a single suggestion yet that does that...

Alright so a lot of you seem to be in favor of a system where you can simply complete the trade from the remote location you are in which if nothing else i would take it.

However i still feel the bartering tab has more merit because it also severely cuts back on the effectiveness of price fixing.. Price fixers do a handful of things but one of the most critical is listing an item and not selling it to give the appearance of that item being worth less than it actually is.

Price fixers will still be able to attempt this boring strategy but users who go through bartering tabs will see the real prices of things since people will try to list their item for as much as possible generally and being able to search specifically through bartering tabs will give a nice contrast on the market to help people more safely navigate it.

This is a game and i want to play it like a game and not have to compete with RMT & Botters because its just stupid to even try, You cant out farm a guy maxxing out his creddit card and if you have a job which i would assume most of the people giving GGG money do how are they supposed to compete with that?

Its a hopeless situation unless enough economic power is put back in the hands of the people dropping the money on the game.

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SilentSymphony wrote:

Its a hopeless situation unless enough economic power is put back in the hands of the people dropping the money on the game.

Well, technically you already have that "economic power" if you really want to - all you need is to know the trends and prices and then you can effectively flip certain shit for steady pixel profit, even without killing any monsters. It doesn't even require supreme dedication, say a couple years ago i was able to raise about a mirror equivalent over 3-4 weeks of casually flipping rare influenced bases during my work (casually meant i haven't put any sirious effort into it back then - just had a couple trade pages open in browser and occasionally bought underpriced stuff, slapping a few orbs/fossils onto it for a small possibility of increasing my "profit" like 5-10x, selling it during the evenings when i actually played the game, rinse and repeat).

Is it a good way? Probably not, but like IRL, the biggest cut still usually goes to flippers, middlemen and such, not to those who actually produce/farm something, unless that "something" is unique enough to have a very high demand with a very limited supply.

What the current crippled trade system in poe with all its flaws and crutches does bad is serving your regular Joe from that funny copypasta called "trade manifesto", who does relatively little amount of trades or just wants to buy some small/cheap things, and usually its Joe who doesn't get replies/invites, its Joe who gets scammed for his "hard-earned" egg-salts etcetera etcetera. Real-world parallels can again be made of course, but there our Joe at least does have the grocery store to reliably buy small things, and IRL scams usually don't go unpunished for years unlike virtual ones.

Could it be improved? Surely, yes. Would it be? Surely, no, because VISION (well, let's say 99.98% surely to leave some glimmer of hope, lol).
Of course people can participate in discussions like this one, but they'll have little to no effect apart from the discussion itself.

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Cyzax wrote:

For GGG to take any suggestions for trade system changes seriously, it requires that the suggested mechanic won't increase the amount of trade. I haven't seen a single suggestion yet that does that...

All that the VISION™ should logically care about is limiting the amount of "high-end" trades plus maintaining the "fairness" of it, and so far it does somewhat poor on that matter if you ask me. I sincerely doubt that say Joe being able to insta-buy that couple maps he needs to complete the atlas or a tabula will cause a global trade "catastrophe", hehe.

And once again it all boils down to :

There is too much worthless items that loot because they are not well rolled.

Value comes from rarity, but rarity with no quality is dog shit...

Problem is, with item getting better quality so having more value, GGG would have to delete trade bots on a larger scale than what they do now...

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dW2005 wrote:

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Cyzax wrote:

For GGG to take any suggestions for trade system changes seriously, it requires that the suggested mechanic won't increase the amount of trade. I haven't seen a single suggestion yet that does that...

All that the VISION™ should logically care about is limiting the amount of "high-end" trades plus maintaining the "fairness" of it, and so far it does somewhat poor on that matter if you ask me. I sincerely doubt that say Joe being able to insta-buy that couple maps he needs to complete the atlas or a tabula will cause a global trade "catastrophe", hehe.

That is because you don't consider that the game have to be:
a. Playable (i.e. not impossible)
b. Challenging (i.e. not a walkover)

...for a number of different types of players:
a. Non-trading casual players
b. Non-trading no-life players
c. Trading casual players
d. Trading no-life players
...and everything in-between... all in the same game balance.

Take maps for example... The game across all players drops a LOT more maps than needed to sustain them, so if trading for those were easy, poof goes the challenge in sustaining them for trading players. GGG would then have to reduce map drops to keep that challenge there, which would make the game much harder (probably impossible to play) for non-trading players.

It is the same for all consumables. Permanent items are even worse as the drop rate is even higher.

GGG is well aware of this, and it is why easy trade can't become reality.

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trixxar wrote:

Can we all at least agree that not being able to trade without physical presence in a game that includes delirium, lab, delves, and tons of other content that has harsh punishments for leaving makes no sense.

depends on which angle you look on that issue.

from the player point of view it doesn't make sense cause it punishes those who can't login from work or homeoffice to trade.

from the game's pov, it reliably takes maybe 80% of all items on offer off the market cause players search for stuff they can immediately buy.
devs probably think that there isn't even demand for the 20% of items on sale.
and excluding some items might give non lowballing or players with less perfect items a chance to be found on the first 2 trade pages people usually look through.

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Cyzax wrote:

That is because you don't consider that the game have to be:
a. Playable (i.e. not impossible)
b. Challenging (i.e. not a walkover)

...for a number of different types of players:
a. Non-trading casual players
b. Non-trading no-life players
c. Trading casual players
d. Trading no-life players
...and everything in-between... all in the same game balance.

Take maps for example... The game across all players drops a LOT more maps than needed to sustain them, so if trading for those were easy, poof goes the challenge in sustaining them for trading players. GGG would then have to reduce map drops to keep that challenge there, which would make the game much harder (probably impossible to play) for non-trading players.

It is the same for all consumables. Permanent items are even worse as the drop rate is even higher.

GGG is well aware of this, and it is why easy trade can't become reality.

Usually i won't even reply to something like that, but okay, enlighten me again about how the current game is equally "playable" and "challenging" to say these players:
a) trade league nolifer, who rushes to t16 maps in a couple days and makes xtube guides like "kekeke how to make 3 m1rrorz in a week on league start"
b) SSF nolifer, who does have a lot of time and may be as bot-effective as player a, but must drop all the gear/maps himself
c) trade league noob/casual, who "makes" about whole guacamole 5 egg-salted orbz of "moneyz" over the whole league. C has a couple of hours per day to play.
d) same as player c, but playing SSF.

Bonus points for explaining how exactly will insta-buying that couple maps that won't drop to complete the atlas or some missing item ruin player c's "challenge" compared to doing the same but sending 100 whispers before someone will have a pity over him and sell him these maps instead of ignoring him or throwing random "frak off, i'm busy" insults.