...And so you've bought all the stash tabs you'll ever need. a.k.a the elephant in the room.

"

esostaks wrote:

Sure they can, but at this point it's just a conspiracy. Sounds like too much effort. Plus I'm not even sure their current spaghetti code could really handle it

Not true. They do this all the time to combat botting, and its server side. They simply turn it off, on, and to what level at will.

If GGG wanted to bolster streamer rng, it's not only easy, it's also impossible for a community to prove.

I dont know if they actually do this, but given their track record, they certainly dont get the benefit of the doubt from me.

I haven't seen clickbait in a while.
Not that I needed the entertainment, but it was a deep discussion.

"

Exxxiled665 wrote:

you do know that they can alter the "rng" individually? for example streamers or whales have better drops than others. not saying that they do but its possible

Hah hah, yea, the moment Alk and Empy both dropped Mageblood I checked trade, there was one other. Got to say this tickled a bit, but it's nonsense of course. GGG would never do that.

"

mrhouston wrote:

"

a hundred little fish adding a hundred bucks a year

Something very hard for privileged ppl to understand sometimes is how life is for those who aren't, since we live so separated. I said $0, and $0 it is for whoever has enough tabs, which you can get for much less than $100, and is, well, poor. To spend any more in a game while the energy bill is late, specially in cosmetic pixels you certainly don't need is insane, and will make you broke.

And as I said GGG counts on it, as they probably have seen on their statistics. Our worth here is to work to provide items for the "whales" as you call them, by trade. Which is why they try to force us to trade by global nerfs without end, making casual SSF almost impossible or incredibly boring and repetitive by avoiding danger.

I think you are vastly overthinking this if you really want to understand TenyuanGGG's view of the sort of player you're describing.

Frankly I don't think there is that much deliberation or planning as regards those who are so underprivileged that 'pay bills' or 'support f2p game' is a significant decision. Such people might as well not even exist in the overall picture of how PoE stays afloat. Perhaps (and here you must understand my tongue is firmly in cheek) they should be THANKFUL that PoE is beyond stash tabs genuinely free to play content-wise. After all, it's somewhat unspoken that if you can't afford to participate in a hobby based on ongoing costs, that's on you, not the hobby.

I don't see how you are connecting whales with anything in game beyond mtxes. How is it your work to provide items to the whales by trade? Perhaps I should clarify that whales in the PoE context have absolutely no more or fewer items in game than anyone else beyond what they get using the usual methods. Sure, more tabs will absolutely improve your output there but that seems to be a different argument than you are making...but since I can't quite grasp what that is, I may well be wrong in which case this is running the risk of retreading the stash tabs are p2w ground.

Either way, I don't think Chris would want anyone to choose to put money into PoE over living essentials. I really don't.

One other thing from your OP to address: PoE whales are typically casuals. I don't see why this is so hard for people to understand. Given putting money into PoE doesn't confer in game power, it doesn't attract the sort of whale who keeps spending because they get rewarded for it in game. Most of us did it because we loved what PoE promised to be and wanted to be a part of that. And most beta whales I know hardly play at all anymore. We do have lives, partners, other interests...and most of us know that our role in PoE's existence and prosperity is long done. So please disavow yourself of the PoE whale being a 40 year old single no lifer. Not one I've known fits that mould.

Which brings us to - a few thousand is not a lot to spend on your main hobby.

People drop $5,000 on a vacation to Europe or Asia or Australia (a single vacation), they drop $10,000 on a hobby car to fix up, or $7,000 on their hobby motorcycle, or they spend $40,000 on a kitchen remodel they dont need that adds only $15,000 in home value.

A competitive magic the gathering deck now probably runs $500 to $1200 with a good land base, and you will sure have more than one.

A gym membership costs $50 a month or $600 a year. Over 5 years that is $3000.

$3,000 is not that much, in fact I would wager most hobbies cost a lot more.

All true but that's still a privileged stance in this context. Once you invoke "paying bills" as a major concern you might as well stop trying to justify the cost of hobbies/interests and stick to prioritising what most consider basic essentials.

...which usually includes an internet connection these days, and this Gen Xer has no problem being entertained by that alone most of the time.

Which is to remind everyone reading this: you are privileged. Maybe not as much as some; maybe more than others. But on a grand scale? My god, when's the last time you had to physically open an encyclopedia? Apples and oranges you might say, but if we extrapolate this to how easy and cheap it is to be a gamer thanks to affordable and fast internet (again, considered an essential by most here I'd assume), then maybe a f2p game that still falls far short of p2w isn't the best target for a have/have-not clash.

I thought we all quietly agreed that our version of that was between those who make GGG enough money that they get priority server access ie high profile influencers..and the rest of us. What, wasn't that clear or sharp enough a divide?

GGG revenue in 2020 was $100 million USD. If the average annual spend for those who spent money was $100, then they had a million transactions. If the average spend was half that, say $50, then they had 2 million transactions. Then if the average customer who spends money makes 2 buys a year, then they had a million paying customers.

Other than the $100 million, my numbers a just made up. But they show that it is likely that GGG has lots of players who spend money. If 200 people who post here stop spending, it won't make any difference to GGG.

Most/all? of their revenue comes from people buying points, packs, or divination cards. Spending points is just an accounting transaction and not revenue.

"

ChanBalam wrote:

If 200 people who post here stop spending, it won't make any difference to GGG

What about 200,000 or more during 3.15? Or the current dropoff rate over 50% in comps?

Chris admitted to at least a 30% revenue dip for 3.15's launch, which translates to millions of dollars.

People not playing = people not being monetized.

I think the financial statements for 2021 will be VERY interesting.

OP:

1) You're probably talking about me.
2) You're so off base with your conjecture it's hilarious.

The majority of people spend perpetually on new MTX, not stash tabs. And no; they don't do it because they are "rich" or "streamers."

They spend because the purchases are spaced out well, MTX is addictive, and because it rarely adversely affects working players.

Stash tabs are just the functional teaser to entice a spender for first time purchases. Hideouts and character MTX are what the market has ALWAYS been about (even when it was just GGG supporting was rewarded with the ability to design Unique items, forum flare, character borders, and a more colorful experience).

I've probably now spent over $4500, and it's all because POE is one of the three games I routinely go back to (even if I don't like a certain league).

I make about $50k/year working some 60 hour weeks. Totally outside your bias.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

"

ChanBalam wrote:

If 200 people who post here stop spending, it won't make any difference to GGG

What about 200,000 or more during 3.15? Or the current dropoff rate over 50% in comps?

Chris admitted to at least a 30% revenue dip for 3.15's launch, which translates to millions of dollars.

People not playing = people not being monetized.

I think the financial statements for 2021 will be VERY interesting.

Even if GGG made a league that somehow pleased everyone, the result of lower revenue was entirely expected and predictable given this year's events, and there's likely nothing GGG could do about it;
-At least 3 games including D2R taking players' time (new RPG players don't just appear out of thin air)
-Global price inflation of everyday goods, hampering discretionary spending.
-Increased overtime at work, reducing hours played in ANY games.
-Extended school programs to compensate COVID delays, also cutting into game time.