...And so you've bought all the stash tabs you'll ever need. a.k.a the elephant in the room.

Once, I've seen here in the forum, someone saying they've spent 3000 dollars in the game, all mad about something I don't remember.

Wow. Who does that...? Who spends $3000 on a game? I think there are 2 answers: Rich kids, streamers.

Streamers are too few. Rich kids (that may be in their 40s) have all the time in the world, don't have to work, don't have wifes, can spend 10h/day playing...

At the same time, for us poor working folks, we spend on stash tabs only, of course. The minimum to enjoy the game. At some point, specially because those tabs are empty in every league start, we don't need more.

And we have to work, have family, are broke... don't have that kind of time. We are the "casuals".

And, our revenue to GGG is $0... Or near it.

What's our worth, then...? Well, we can participate in trade. By participating in the game economy, we are working as mules to supply those nolifers with items they can't possibly find by individual grind alone every league.

By trade, the game transforms into a group effort rather than an individual one. With low workers supplying the nolifers who actually still spend in the game.

And because this is their true revenue path, they balance the game more and more towards this, while trying to appease the low second job workers with marketing every league, to avoid them leaving, to keep the game market afloat, and thus keep supplying their actual paying customers with the means to put themselves in a place the mules can't go, appeasing their ego.

I can see some ways out of it situation, all very unlikely to happen:

1- Casuals realize they're being used, and stop supporting by trade, playing SSF only. (probably resulting in they taking the mode out altogether, or making playing like this so bad no one will want to).

2- They start selling the expansions.

3- Nolifers stop supporting as well.

...And only one that'll probably be what will actually happen:

1- Poe finally gets true competition from another game, and all casuals go to that one.

On that last, the game Hades has one of the best progression systems I've ever seen. A new game gets that plus the depth Poe had at the start, with skill trees and items, and Poe is done.

You started your post by dividing the POE player base into two categories: the haves and the have-nots. That is not a good way to elicit an intelligent response from either group.

Just checked out Hades. Looks good, but it's single player, so my woman and I can't play together. Will have to pass and find a different game. We're done giving any more money to GGG, this company has turned into garbage under its Chinese parents, so always looking for a new game to jump over to, but for now, it's still one of the better games... BETTER GAMES not better COMPANIES. When we find a really good game, made by a really good company (that's also co-op), we'll move there and delete PoE.

Heh.

I used to say I did what I did for those who could not. I believed it but if course that's not the only reason. I am a have who is intensely aware of it. Prime altruism material with a healthy dollop of privilege-based guilt. GGG saw me coming a mile away.

So, very guilty as charged: early 40s, retired, effectively burden free, able to spend copiously on whatever I love without hesitation.

Streamers are a different breed for one simple reason: the best of them actively make GGG money. A lot of it. I highly doubt many of them are whales in the traditional sense. If they spend on PoE, it isn't to support the game but to somehow boost it and their relationship with it. So please don't lump us OG whales in with those sharks. Please.

Needless to say, individual contributions to anything that has a sophisticated network of essentially subcontracted salesmen and promoters are...proportionally insignificant. I would never call PoE a pyramid scheme but the structure is basically there. So-called angel investors and philanthropic whales have no place in there -- so this notion of the "little guy" only buying tabs being somehow worth less to GGG than a 3k whale is straight up wrong. When your business is tens of millions, a hundred little fish adding a hundred bucks a year trumps a whale who added 3k once. And a streamer who can bring in 3k a month....well...


Anyway point is the machine has evolved far, far past any concept of individual contribution as anything other than a personal indulgence. Some probably think we whales are bitter about that, but those people are fools who don't care to consider why we are whales for PoE and not a more traditional p2w f2p game.

PS Hades fucking rocks. Of course. But I'm not sure how it relates to an unnecessarily primitive trading simulator masquerading as an ARPG aimed at Galaxy Brains. Edit: I thought 'gambling simulator' was a little too generous; it's not merely simulating that.

^

Initially I wasnt going to respond to the OP, because I wasnt actually sure this thread was genuine in its sentiment.

I think its more than clear that casuals spend money, lots of it in fact. It's the only way the F2P model works in the larger scheme.

That being said, I believe there is also some nuance here, especially from those that have been with PoE for a long time, and "supported" them when they actually needed it. Those that "supported" GGG in 2012 or 2013, had a much different feeling, than they have now in terms of what their "support" means. I know because I'm one of them.

I think using a word like betrayal, is a bridge too far, but providing GGG with thousands in "support", and then watching as they introduce gamble boxes, sellout to Tencent, display contempt for the average player, and choosing "bags of money" in marketing & hype (insert streamer server meme), leaves me, and I suspect a decent amount of folks, reduced to a feeling of complete, and total, ambivalence towards GGG.

They won't be getting a single cent from me ever again, and truly I couldnt care less what actually happens to the game. I will play for free from time to time, and while I dont regret the thousands I spent, I'm significantly disappointed with how things turned out. (Without getting too personal)

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a hundred little fish adding a hundred bucks a year

Something very hard for privileged ppl to understand sometimes is how life is for those who aren't, since we live so separated. I said $0, and $0 it is for whoever has enough tabs, which you can get for much less than $100, and is, well, poor. To spend any more in a game while the energy bill is late, specially in cosmetic pixels you certainly don't need is insane, and will make you broke.

And as I said GGG counts on it, as they probably have seen on their statistics. Our worth here is to work to provide items for the "whales" as you call them, by trade. Which is why they try to force us to trade by global nerfs without end, making casual SSF almost impossible or incredibly boring and repetitive by avoiding danger.

Not sure what exactly are you upset about, but there's one fact - in PoE everyone starts on an even ground. Even the biggest whale who spent thousands of bucks doesn't get any advantage. So I really don't see any difference between a 'poor man' who spent only on tabs and a 'rich kid' who can buy all the MTX in the world.

How is the rich kid privileged exactly? Both the poor and the rich have to put in the same amount of work/hours to progress in the game so I fail to see how the poor are at any disadvantage or 'mules' for the rich.

I've never bought a single cosmetics item in any video game and never felt at disadvantage because of it.

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esostaks wrote:

Not sure what exactly are you upset about, but there's one fact - in PoE everyone starts on an even ground. Even the biggest whale who spent thousands of bucks doesn't get any advantage. So I really don't see any difference between a 'poor man' who spent only on tabs and a 'rich kid' who can buy all the MTX in the world.

How is the rich kid privileged exactly? Both the poor and the rich have to put in the same amount of work/hours to progress in the game so I fail to see how the poor are at any disadvantage or 'mules' for the rich.

I've never bought a single cosmetics item in any video game and never felt at disadvantage because of it.

you do know that they can alter the "rng" individually? for example streamers or whales have better drops than others. not saying that they do but its possible

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Exxxiled665 wrote:

you do know that they can alter the "rng" individually? for example streamers or whales have better drops than others. not saying that they do but its possible

Sure they can, but at this point it's just a conspiracy. Sounds like too much effort. Plus I'm not even sure their current spaghetti code could really handle it because as soon as they change one thing in the game it always breaks 100 other things. Now imagine them trying to implement different RNG for streamers. The hell would break lose.

"

esostaks wrote:

"

Exxxiled665 wrote:

you do know that they can alter the "rng" individually? for example streamers or whales have better drops than others. not saying that they do but its possible

Sure they can, but at this point it's just a conspiracy. Sounds like too much effort. Plus I'm not even sure their current spaghetti code could really handle it because as soon as they change one thing in the game it always breaks 100 other things. Now imagine them trying to implement different RNG for streamers. The hell would break lose.

i saw the "rng" streamers have and know what i have. for all the years i've been playing i never had a drop worth more than 1 ex. i never had more than 3 natural ex drops per 3 month league and i always lvl at least 2 characters to lvl 94-95.
my "rng" stinks. is it because i dont spend money or it really is just rng? dunno but the fact that they have the ability to interfere doesnt make me feel good.