'league starting' is the worst 'meta'

This is a pressure problem they've created by their tuning numbers really, simultaneously squashing general build performance whilst putting stricter requirements on builds drastically reduces how much feels good to start with. Those same hipster builds also require more to get going so there is more impetus on getting a good start.

I did prefer being able to start as stupid shit and make it work but if I played SC I could still do that, in a way its my own fault *shrugs*, it does feel super bad if you go for a risky league start and it doesn't work out though I wouldn't be surprised if they lose plenty of players to such.

Edit: of course it would help if they actually just got rid of all the established league starters and raised the bar for everything, they still have a completely scattergun balance approach that helps feed the narrative of "they want us to play X"

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This is a pressure problem they've created by their tuning numbers really, simultaneously squashing general build performance whilst putting stricter requirements on builds drastically reduces how much feels good to start with.

This has been reduced how? How come the number of builds you can start with is lower?

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Johny_Snow wrote:

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This is a pressure problem they've created by their tuning numbers really, simultaneously squashing general build performance whilst putting stricter requirements on builds drastically reduces how much feels good to start with.

This has been reduced how? How come the number of builds you can start with is lower?

By heavily decreasing the dmg from support gems in 3.15 while only buffing monsters at the same time.

At the highest levels. How much would several % more damage affect a skill when it is only level 5 lets say?

To be fair,

I think a "league starter" idea as a baseline for POE or any power-fantasy ARPG is bad design.

You guys seem to be bagging on the guy that made the original post, but the idea that you have to farm on a build you may or may not enjoy for a build you do enjoy is fundamentally antithetical to an ARPG where you can pick any class to use any skill to play.

I don't think the argument is that every build should be able to do Awakener 8. I agree that shouldn't be the case.

However, since most/all rewards are tied to red map content (conq, shaper, elder items), I believe it is a fair criticism that MOST skills should be able to handle T16 red maps (with reasonable modifiers) and Awakener level 4. This assumes that all the defensive check boxes and support skills are also in place to support whatever that skill is.

I don't understand how anyone can defend "league starter".

You dont HAVE TO anything. No one forces you to do so. League starter become a thing because a lot of people preffer to be efficient, so they start with so called 'League starter" and when they farm enough currency, they change to something else.

its not even just "league starter" its "all league"

why would you switch builds to one that does less than half the damage, takes three times longer to clear the map, etc.

back when this game with in alpha and in beta, the entire notion of the game was that you could do any class, any build, total freedom to do whatever, and the kicker is, THAT IS ALL WORKED

thats right, the original idea was that you could do any class and skill and IT WORKED.


now the game is you can pick from 3 skills per league, or suffer an immense struggle just to do the SAME EXACT THING that you could do if you just simply picked one of the 3 skills.

this is just piss poor design, and shows how shit the gaming industry is nowadays

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Aynix wrote:

You dont HAVE TO anything. No one forces you to do so

Well you are right about that. People have left this league at an all time record pace percentage wise.

This after arguably the worst launch from a player concurrency drop and revenue miss perspective with 3.15

Fact is, at a time where there isnt really a current gen/next gen PoE competitor, people are choosing to simply leave to do something else. PoE should be absolutely killing it, but unfortunately the only thing being killed is the playerbase.

Ye, well their shouldn't be skills better at lvling than others, or the gap shouldn't be so wide. Nobody should have zoomer skills, for leveling purposes. Especially if the format is league resets per 3 months, especially not then.

Some guy saying he only runs lightning trap to lvl or something, is dumb. Fix that, or w/e skill people are overly using just to lvl, fix that. Balance.

Other than that, yeah people can play w/e they want. I only have time to main 1, 2, or 3 chars at most, per league.

To say that lvling 1 char, to fund another char, is " faster ", not necessarily, maybe not at all. Just depends on the persons playstyle tbh. Lvling 1 toon, may be faster.

P.s. For beginners, anyones 1st two leagues, I'd suggest not even having main's, just test alts. I only started during Expedition, had 33 alts below lvl 54. Scourge I have three alts at lvl 60 - 73 & three alts below 36. I was going to try to main 3 chars this league, as this is my 1st league to take seriously. Yet I ended up getting 3 chars to bloody aquaducts & rerolled them for diff reasons. Every league I'll prob have fewer alts or try to.

Tho I'll never make a character to use non-theme based skills, just to lvl faster. Nor will I make a booster starter for item feeding a 2nd. I also never followed anyones " build guide " ever, not even once, stop feeding beginners that advice. Sure, if they want to, or need the extra help. Just suggesting to not act like a beginner is lost without a guide, that's bad advice. Just tell them how much life % they need by lvl 90 & to pick a dps skill they like, plus some defense theory building simple suggestion.




(Also they should buff any leveling skills that aren't good enough or nerf the ones these zoomers use, besides afew that need more life or something to work like RF. Zoomer strategies are annoying man, they need to nerf zoomers, & stop turning the game into a race. Theirs plenty of content for mmorpg's, that isn't about racing from 1 side of the map to the other. Figure it out GGG, make people stop for bosses while lvling, for starters, tired of these zoomers skipping non-quest rares.

It's like Heavy Strikes utility should be just as useful lategame as Boneshatter is. They shouldn't have skills that are only good for leveling to get a diff skill / yet similar / later on. They should just give every skill separate useful unique utility to it.)

It's not as much that some skills are significantly worse than others during the early game and need to be balanced (that usually is the case to some degree but not the main factor). It's that the people who use a "league starter" build are generally skipping content and not really playing the early game at all. They usually pick a ranged AoE skill that scales mostly off gem level to level with so they can race through stages without stopping to craft or find the gear required to keep their progress going.