My Journey with POE has end

"

plaguefear wrote:

If you think melee in any way compares to ranged you need to get checked into rehab.
Melee is not the best in ANY area.

Left and right on the tree don't necessarily equal melee or ranged, but this thread has painted gladiator nerfs as a melee nerf so I will go along with that idea for now. Can you point me towards a build that is more tanky and cheap to achieve than the old block cap gladiator. You are already in a thread with a specific example.

However since you want more, don't act like skills such as viper strike have worse damage scaling than their counterparts like cobra lash. Cobra lash has 113-169 added chaos damage at level 20 compared to Viper strike's 168-254 (50% more). Viper strike has 60% chance to poison compared to cobra lash getting 40% (not a big issue, but it does both take less investment to hit 100% and highlight the trend). Viper strike inherently has 100% more poison duration compared to cobra lash getting 5% more damage per chain remaining (with 5 chains at level 20) and 50% increased dot multi on crit (87.5% more if for some reason you don't have any dot multi). So it gets more of a damage multiplier on every hit than cobra lash gets conditionally on ctit. Additionally it even comes with a threshold jewel that gives unholy might and 2% increased damage per poison on the enemy which synergizes with its inherent 100% more duration. Cobra lash has no threshold jewel.

Melee has its niche, and it shouldn't have clear speed comparable to ranged. The problem is that those niches are kind of worthless on softcore trade where we have an inbuilt 6 layers of defense through portals and can make way more resources by mapping than dealing with bosses outside the first few days. Melee doesn't particularly fit into the meta there, but that doesn't mean it needs a buff. I could take the melee lobbying more seriously if you acknowledged its strengths, but that never seems to happen.

Of course.
And let me add this:
The game is totally broken, when a ranged character is outdoing me in 15-20mln. DPS playing on melee Build, compare to my Gladiator, having the same HP as me, and same or even better defenses, simply because he is killing mobs 100x time faster than me.

And i have been talking about the so call Rider, here it is:
https://pastebin.com/NwhspaMn

17mln. DPS
74% evade Chance
16% phy reduction
17% block chance
75% attack Dodge Chance
66% Spell Dodge chance
Easy time maxing every res


Compare to my similar Glad
2,3mln. DPS
78% block attack/Spell
15k. Armor - 80% phys. red
Very hard time Maxing res, and can't use Ryslatha's Coil and/or Shaper's Touch
Still my Belt is a top one:


Gloves are comparable in terms of DPS, but was work in progress


His Amu is definitely better, but that Amu is probably 100exa+

My Amu is still an absolutely beast and a top notch tho, last mod is a work in progress tho:


Weapons are kinda comparable, cause his is 440DPS, my is 540 with T1 Crit Multi.




Again i played this game from the very beginning with in and outs(for years).
Last time i played was till Betrayal, cause they pissed me hard.
I came back this League, because i was interested in what state this game is.

Every single good thing melee has over the year, was totally deleted from the game.
Molten Strike was deleted, Double Strike, Infernal Blow, Dual Strike, Frenzy, Puncture, Viper Strike, Pestilent Strike, Heavy Strike, Cleave, now FB for real melee, and pretty much every single Strike Skill, that feels as melee got deleted.
Strike Skills was long time dead, and they even nerf them more with the Strike Range, which was the all time LOW move, that shows you they don't know what they are doing at all.

And don't even compare Caster/Ranged to melee, cause melee needs way better defence, cause he is in the face of monster, not zooming out from 20 meters away.
Yet Ranged/Caster have huge advantage in DMG, like 100x to 1, and on top of that they always have the superior defense with the DODGE/Evasion.
Just by looking how much glass cannon they are, and are doing perfectly fine and not dying is telling you the whole story.
How can he die, when he is 20 meters away?
And you can compare this to a melee, that in most time won't 1 shot the entire pack, and have to strike again in their face, and actually TANK DMG ?

You know how ridiculous that sound.

Back in the day i had a Tornado Shot Deadeye on a goddamn budget with Lioneye's Glare and Chin Sol on swapable. A very popular build back in the day. And that build was absolutely ******* highest tier of maps and was doing all content on a goddamn budget.

And the clear speed was like 150x time faster than any of my melee build back in the day.
I had Jugger, Berserk(was dog..... and a dead meat back in the day), and Gladiator, Champion. Same story. My Ranger has easier time and dying less, because i just zoom everything, before i can even see what i'm shooting at. DPS was no comparable at all.

I have said this million times. I have never wanted a nerf for any Classes in the game. This is not a good thing to do. IF something is OP, just balance it. Don't straight up nerf it, but take something from it, and give him something else.

Deleting 90% of the build, to just nerf 1 ***** build is the most stupidest thing i have ever seen, and GGG is constantly doing this.

And for 100 million times already
Ranger/Caster should have the Clear speed advantage, but melee should have huge Defense/Tank advantage. You should be a real melee.

With all the block i had, unless spending 120+ exa on Boots with Stun/Freeze immunity, the moment i get stun from a monster i'm dead. Same with openning Strongbox, that have anything with Freeze on it.
I'm in the Boss face, i'm going to die 100 times more, compare to a moving ranger, that is killing everything with few shots.

How can you compare this to any melee, tell me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmkEb98jrYQ

He is playing with NO GEAR at ALL with Quill Rain only on 1,4k hp. and he is zooming everything and nothing touches him on T16 ....
Boss is deleted in 0.5 sec. And you have the nerve to comes here and talk about melee, are you for dude?
How can you even compare the two, and talk about defense, when we have a totally OP ***** like this ?
Where is the balance i ask ?

And this ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3W-2OTlZ3c&t=12s
And ***** like this ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw7c6MC_EMM&t=155s

But GGG doesn't have the courage to touch ranged/casters, cause this is what all Streamers play, and the moment they tone them down and Streamers start leaving, the game will be dead, cause the nowadays teen are copy/paste and do what their favorable streamers/tuber does.

Don't talk about melee pls, because melee has always been inferior to Range/Caster by 100 to 1.

"

X_Stickman_X wrote:

"

plaguefear wrote:

If you think melee in any way compares to ranged you need to get checked into rehab.
Melee is not the best in ANY area.

Left and right on the tree don't necessarily equal melee or ranged, but this thread has painted gladiator nerfs as a melee nerf so I will go along with that idea for now. Can you point me towards a build that is more tanky and cheap to achieve than the old block cap gladiator. You are already in a thread with a specific example.

However since you want more, don't act like skills such as viper strike have worse damage scaling than their counterparts like cobra lash. Cobra lash has 113-169 added chaos damage at level 20 compared to Viper strike's 168-254 (50% more). Viper strike has 60% chance to poison compared to cobra lash getting 40% (not a big issue, but it does both take less investment to hit 100% and highlight the trend). Viper strike inherently has 100% more poison duration compared to cobra lash getting 5% more damage per chain remaining (with 5 chains at level 20) and 50% increased dot multi on crit (87.5% more if for some reason you don't have any dot multi). So it gets more of a damage multiplier on every hit than cobra lash gets conditionally on ctit. Additionally it even comes with a threshold jewel that gives unholy might and 2% increased damage per poison on the enemy which synergizes with its inherent 100% more duration. Cobra lash has no threshold jewel.

Melee has its niche, and it shouldn't have clear speed comparable to ranged. The problem is that those niches are kind of worthless on softcore trade where we have an inbuilt 6 layers of defense through portals and can make way more resources by mapping than dealing with bosses outside the first few days. Melee doesn't particularly fit into the meta there, but that doesn't mean it needs a buff. I could take the melee lobbying more seriously if you acknowledged its strengths, but that never seems to happen.

Gladiator was never cheap, don't talk nonsenses. If you are dying like 2-3 times per map, cause you got less than a million DPS, you are going to get less than 500k. on a budget Gladiator, because you got no DPS at all from Ascendancy, and with 500k< DPS you are going to die 100x time more than any glass cannon in the game, so again you have no idea what you are talking about. And you can make like 10 different ranged/caster builds on budget and do millions+ DPS with decent defense/res, and clear T16 with ease

And how hard is to get, that Clear Speed was never ever comparable, so you don't have the right to speak about it. It was never in the conversation.
A budget Ranged will beat a top legacy Melee Character in terms of Clear speed.

And is it that hard to read? Blind was nerfed, Fortify was nerfed(no matter what they write, it's a nerf, unless you are on a legacy tier items), Tempest Shield is big time hit, cause it's not longer free, Flesh and Stone is a big time nerf, Strike Skills that were garbage anyways, were deleted, oh i mean nerfed, block is destroyed. SST also get nerfed. And i guess you missed the HUGE nerf to Bleeding in 3.15, that totally kills most Melee Bleeding.

"

X_Stickman_X wrote:

"

plaguefear wrote:

If you think melee in any way compares to ranged you need to get checked into rehab.
Melee is not the best in ANY area.

Left and right on the tree don't necessarily equal melee or ranged, but this thread has painted gladiator nerfs as a melee nerf so I will go along with that idea for now. Can you point me towards a build that is more tanky and cheap to achieve than the old block cap gladiator. You are already in a thread with a specific example.

Yes, literally any guardian with memory vault.
As to your example of cobra lash vs viper strike: 1) cobra lash can get enough dps to do all content in game with little investment, 2) you can literally switch two gems on most cobra lash setups and use viper strike for single target. 3) venom gyre is better than both of them.

I like these topics appear every single league xD

"zOMG, they gone and done nerf me favorite build/ascendancy! I r quit now!".

Seriously, how do you even get so worked up about something like that? There's like 160+ skill gems in the game of which plenty will be strong. Go play something else, you might just find something you enjoy playing even more. Then after a few leagues your favorite skill/ascendancy will be buffed again and you can play it again.

That is how PoE has always worked. Rolling with the punches is part of the fun a new league start. At least its for me.

"

RoyalMarauder wrote:

Of course.
And let me add this:
The game is totally broken, when a ranged character is outdoing me in 15-20mln. DPS playing on melee Build, compare to my Gladiator, having the same HP as me, and same or even better defenses, simply because he is killing mobs 100x time faster than me.

And i have been talking about the so call Rider, here it is:
https://pastebin.com/NwhspaMn

...

I have said this million times. I have never wanted a nerf for any Classes in the game. This is not a good thing to do. IF something is OP, just balance it. Don't straight up nerf it, but take something from it, and give him something else.

Deleting 90% of the build, to just nerf 1 ***** build is the most stupidest thing i have ever seen, and GGG is constantly doing this.

And for 100 million times already
Ranger/Caster should have the Clear speed advantage, but melee should have huge Defense/Tank advantage. You should be a real melee.

With all the block i had, unless spending 120+ exa on Boots with Stun/Freeze immunity, the moment i get stun from a monster i'm dead. Same with openning Strongbox, that have anything with Freeze on it.
I'm in the Boss face, i'm going to die 100 times more, compare to a moving ranger, that is killing everything with few shots.

How can you compare this to any melee, tell me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmkEb98jrYQ

He is playing with NO GEAR at ALL with Quill Rain only on 1,4k hp. and he is zooming everything and nothing touches him on T16 ....
Boss is deleted in 0.5 sec. And you have the nerve to comes here and talk about melee, are you for dude?
How can you even compare the two, and talk about defense, when we have a totally OP ***** like this ?
Where is the balance i ask ?

And this ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3W-2OTlZ3c&t=12s
And ***** like this ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw7c6MC_EMM&t=155s

But GGG doesn't have the courage to touch ranged/casters, cause this is what all Streamers play, and the moment they tone them down and Streamers start leaving, the game will be dead, cause the nowadays teen are copy/paste and do what their favorable streamers/tuber does.

Don't talk about melee pls, because melee has always been inferior to Range/Caster by 100 to 1.

You linked a frost blades PoB as the example of what OP nonmelee skills are. You doing okay buddy? Last time I checked frostblades had a melee tag. Also, stun and freeze are something you either ignore and die occasionally from or address on every build. Should be better in the next patch thankfully, but anyone without a means to save themselves will die from a strongbox with freeze on it.

That first video you linked has a boss fight from 1:28 to 2:09. That seems like about 82 times your .5 second claim. Also, are you sure quill rain only is a good way to describe a setup with a double corrupted weapon, 3 awakened gems (one of which is level 6), and a flask that only drops from shaper? If you look in the description the guy even links a PoB that has a double wrath watcher's eye (not actually in use because he can't use wrath), a 3 passive voices, several really nice abyss jewels with added damage, and a secrets of suffering unique cluster. His "just quill rain" is probably worth more than your entire gladiator build.

The second video is clearly a very well geared glass cannon. He has about 4% exp, and you can see his hp drop to about 20% several times in the video. You say range should have the advantage on clear speed, but here you are rallying against a video called [PoE 3.15] Tornado shot + Focused Ballista Clear Speed! because it has more clear speed than your gladiator.

The third one can be dismissed just after looking at the title as well: Peak PoE End Game Farm [STD]. Are you really looking at anything on standard called peak endgame and wondering why your build doesn't match up?

You have said that you don't want any nerfs, but you also talk about GGG "touching" ranged builds as if it is the right thing that they just don't have the courage to do. You even say it would kill the game, but that apparently isn't enough to warrant not doing it to make you feel better about melee.

Oh bro, you didn't even look what Class the FB POB was .... But let me clear it for you - it was a Rider, not a Gladiator .....

And do you even understand how much Rider was hit as well as Gladiator, as well as FB, and melee as a whole ? But how can you, when you never in your life played melee, cause you are having easier time with caster/ranged zooming out from a safe distance.

As far as the Freeze/Stun immunity, you should have read better and then you would understand the reason behind why Gladiator have hard time get it.

And i asked you like 20 question, but you are dodging them like a plague, because you cannot say a thing about them, because they are spot on.

As far as the video i gave, you have hard time seeing the guy is using a crap leveling Unique bow, and he had no gear at all, and again you are missing the important part, just to suit your agenda, which obviously ain't working.

He is also at 1,4k hp. and didn't die even once on T16 map.
Show me a no gear Gladiator or an actual melee that can do this with no Gear, and to see his Clear speed.
As the Ranged clear speed was ridiculous, he was zooming everything with no gear.
And the Boss HP was removing quite easily. He took his time, simply because he was moving, to not get one shoot, cause he has no GEAR.

And he obviously going to have his Skill Gems, but the Gear is missing. You understand what his DMG will be with a Gear?

And he didn't use Watcher's Eye or anything at all, you should have read the description maybe next time ???
But let me help you.

- no tornado shot helmet enchantment
- no quiver
- no farrul (armor)
- no power charge
- no cusre on hit
- no amulet (4 totem from 5 bc amulet anoint with +1 totem passive)
- no glove
only bow in weapon slot :) and i use some slot ring to use frenzy
- no watcher eye (bc i don't has equipment to put aura so watcher eye effect don't work)
- all resist -60 all xD bc i has no equipment

Show me a melee Build with anything similar to this with such an insane Map Clear speed. The guy cleared T16 with no Gear at all for the likes of 1 minutes, and then he took his time for the Boss, to not get one shooted. But Boss HP was melting. If it was any other Boss it would have died faster for sure.

As far as the second video, don't make me laugh. The guy is level 99, do you even realize that ? Good luck getting to level 99 with glass cannon melee.
He is clearing a whole map for less than minute again. And his build is not expensive AT ALL.
And he is running on 3k. HP having an easy time, cause he is not in their face, aka Melee.
Good luck trying this with melee.

And did you miss the whole part - Ranged/Caster should have advantage in Clear Speed, but not 1000 to 1, as well as melee should have advantage in Survivability/Tankiness, which obvious is not the case.

You are going to die way more, simply because you are in their face, and do 1000 time less damage.
In this game the best defense is kill before you get killed, aka DPS > ALL in terms of defense as well.

The first clip prove my point quite easy. The guy ain't care about anything, he is having an insane amount of clear speed, and still running absolutely safe on -60 res, and no checking at any of the mechanics that are thrown at the melee, and they need to check every box, just in order to survive every single encounter.

And yeah i couldn't care less if Range/Caster Clear speed is like 10x time better than melee, if melee survivability/tankiness is 10x time better.
This is what fair means.

"

RoyalMarauder wrote:

Oh bro, you didn't even look what Class the FB POB was .... But let me clear it for you - it was a Rider, not a Gladiator .....

And do you even understand how much Rider was hit as well as Gladiator, as well as FB, and melee as a whole ? But how can you, when you never in your life played melee, cause you are having easier time with caster/ranged zooming out from a safe distance.

As far as the Freeze/Stun immunity, you should have read better and then you would understand the reason behind why Gladiator have hard time get it.

And i asked you like 20 question, but you are dodging them like a plague, because you cannot say a thing about them, because they are spot on.

As far as the video i gave, you have hard time seeing the guy is using a crap leveling Unique bow, and he had no gear at all, and again you are missing the important part, just to suit your agenda, which obviously ain't working.

What a polite start you are off to. Your entire rant about how much your gear is worth and moaning about that build doing more damage was pointless because he is also melee, and you are trying to compare melee to range as evidenced by you prefacing it with:

"

The game is totally broken, when a ranged character is outdoing me in 15-20mln. DPS playing on melee Build, compare to my Gladiator, having the same HP as me, and same or even better defenses, simply because he is killing mobs 100x time faster than me.

And i have been talking about the so call Rider, here it is:
https://pastebin.com/NwhspaMn

No, I am not going to bother touching on each point in a rant that is based on a flawed premise.

"

And he obviously going to have his Skill Gems, but the Gear is missing. You understand what his DMG will be with a Gear?

And he didn't use Watcher's Eye or anything at all, you should have read the description maybe next time ???
But let me help you.

- no tornado shot helmet enchantment
- no quiver
- no farrul (armor)
- no power charge
- no cusre on hit
- no amulet (4 totem from 5 bc amulet anoint with +1 totem passive)
- no glove
only bow in weapon slot :) and i use some slot ring to use frenzy
- no watcher eye (bc i don't has equipment to put aura so watcher eye effect don't work)
- all resist -60 all xD bc i has no equipment

Yeah, I acknowledged that his watcher's eye didn't do anything for him. Since you are so condescendingly good at reading though (especially considering that you have your proper grammar block rate capped), maybe you can point out the part where he says that he unequipped his abyss jewels and his clusters. Because to me it looked like he was using quill rain's attack speed as a way to capitalize on the flat damage the abyss jewels were giving and his fancy capped awakened gems were all scaling that added flat damage. Then he was using secrets of suffering's brittle + a diamond flask to get crit to amp that. If you removed all the jewels he would lose 90% of his damage so it is just ridiculous to not include that in the gear required. With that said, the gear he used in that video to kill a t16 boss in 40+ seconds is worth enough to fund several gladiator builds that can kill Sirus A9.

Sure, you tell me it only took that long because he dodged, but I have read several melee lobbying posts say that melee is bad because of damage downtime while you have to dodge. Is this an example of double standards or are you a rare exception that has never once made such a claim or thought of that as a problem? I am willing to bet it is the first with the way that you are willing to classify that Raider frost blades build as ranged when noting his high damage, but then go on to say:

"

And do you even understand how much Rider was hit as well as Gladiator, as well as FB, and melee as a whole ?

and pull it back into melee when talking about how it is being nerfed. You are projecting very hard when you tell me I am being dishonest because of my bias, and I have been giving you far more attention and seriousness than your lobbying deserves.

You cannot answer 90% of the question i ask in this thread, you just miss the uncomfortable question, and are talking nonsenses.
And trying to get personal with some b.c. narratives just show you are lacking arguments, and the moment you got no answer, is the time you start attacking on personal level, which just prove my point once more.

You are low on words, but arguments are lacking as well.
I have asked you to show me a real melee, Strike Skill for example that could do this naked, with just a weapon(he doesn't even use arrows lol), and using a 1 Chaos Unique item, like he is doing with Quill Rain.

As far as the ALL Awakening Gems, he is using exactly - 2. This is his words:

"awakened stones is only GMP and lightning penetrate so just loss 1 projectile for normal gmp and use normal penetrate gem only reduce around 3-4% penetrate it not difference much or use normal add lightning damage for replace :)"

He is also using Ele Awakening, but as he said, there won't be much difference, and he will still be able to do the map without a problem, and with super clear speed.
As far as the Flask he is using 1 Unique - Dying Sun, and that Flask is worth - 5 chaos - this is a budget thing buddy. As far as Crit Flask, everyone have access to them, and are worth nothing .... So you expect him to run without flasks, lol ?
And he said he didn't use the Voices Jewel, and you can do it with Medium Cluster for example.

As far as the passive tree and what he have in it, are you for real? The guy is proving how OP ranged is by clearing T16 map for a minute(without the boss), without any gear at all, and 1 chaos Bow.

Should i told him to respect all his passive skill, so you to be happy?

I'm still waiting for the Melee build that could achieve that.

And do you even can't understand what is it to be in the face of the Mobs, and get hit actually and stay 20 meters away from the danger and just click to move left or right while Zooming ? If you see no difference, then you can't get more biased than this. It's ridiculous.

And you know what Ascendancy Raider is buddy? Yeah exactly - Ranger. The name should tells you something.
And you while you can build a ranged Gladiator or so, this ain't the main purpose, right ?
My point was that even a Ranger is doing better than the actual melee, being the melee, but you obviously have hard time getting it.

P.P. A better idea, instead of giving me a video of someone going naked and annihilate a T16 map, why you didn't show us your skill in melee, and create one with just 1 chaos Unique weapon, and show us how you are doing in T16 maps???
You can put all the Cluster and Unique Jewel as you would like into your tree.

Wanna see Double Strike/HS/VS/PS/Cleave/FB/etc, just any of the Strike Skills do the same.
Going on a walk at 1,4k hp - 60 on all res, and annihilate the whole map in no time, without dying.

Anyone on his goddamn mind know from the very start that Range/Casters > Melee by 1000 to 1 or even more.

"

RoyalMarauder wrote:

The Gladiator nerf(yeah you can call it whatever you wanna call it, but it's a straight up destruction) was the final nail in the coffin.

You also nerfed Strike Skill into the oblivion again...

Does it help your case when you hyperbole things like you're doing? Does it make the feedback better?

Gladiator: Sure, it's a nerf. But not a destruction. Far from.

And regarding the strike range nerf; I agree with you that it's a very strange and misplaced change, but "nerfed into oblivion"? Come on.

I'll accept this reaction if you're very new to the game. But bigger nerfs than the Gladiator nerf have been done many times. Bigger buffs too. The game has always been, will always be and is everchanging. Progressing. Now you have a good reason to try something different next league.