I do not believe you

"

sidtherat wrote:

this bolded part is.. youll see in a week how wrong you are here

dodge/blind/block nerfs are massive. most of the 'successful' characters used these, ignoring AR/EV completely (unless they got it from opportunistic sources)

the buff to AR is laughable, the EV - same story. The real winner is Spell Supression IF it is easy to stack. but 'stacking' anything is an investment and has opportunity cost.

3.16 is as much nerf to defences as 3.15 was to damage. but this time they actually did the PR spin well and people are happy. thats one feat to pull

Sid has been questioning defences in PoE for years he'll never be satisfied, he just criticizes for the sake of it. He's a contrarian. I remember reading him arguing with people that Hybrid ES/Eva was strong when nobody played it. He just likes to disagree.

I would take what he says with a pinch of salt.

"

AbilityPoints wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

this bolded part is.. youll see in a week how wrong you are here

dodge/blind/block nerfs are massive. most of the 'successful' characters used these, ignoring AR/EV completely (unless they got it from opportunistic sources)

the buff to AR is laughable, the EV - same story. The real winner is Spell Supression IF it is easy to stack. but 'stacking' anything is an investment and has opportunity cost.

3.16 is as much nerf to defences as 3.15 was to damage. but this time they actually did the PR spin well and people are happy. thats one feat to pull

Sid has been questioning defences in PoE for years he'll never be satisfied, he just criticizes for the sake of it. He's a contrarian. I remember reading him arguing with people that Hybrid ES/Eva was strong when nobody played it. He just likes to disagree.

I would take what he says with a pinch of salt.

At least he brings arguments to the table. You just told us that he annoys you...wow.

"

Souchirou wrote:

Lets see:

1) Zones on the atlas cut in half.
2) Delve made more rewarding at lower depths.
3) Rework of the passive tree making it easier to get the core elements of your build.
4) Rework of defenses to give more defense with less investment.
5) Uber lab just takes one trail / trade for the blessing to access.
6) More items, especially currency items now drop as stacks instead of lose currency. Less clicks = more time to level.
7) Easier access to guild stash.
8) ctrl + click on the prophecy lady now takes you directly to the sell screen.

I'm probably forgetting at least a few others. 3.16 is probably one of the biggest changes in time investment required in years. You should be celebrating!

1) good maps and most rewarding atlas passives removed
2) don't know how significant that buff will be , not holding my breath
3) skill points are already extremely tight and clusters serve an identical function, seems like some grace toward ssf which is actually awesome
4) they removed dodge, buffed eva by an insignificant amount and killed the block ascendancy
5) a good change but frankly you got all the trials by the time you needed the last 2 asc points anyway
6) a big fat plus.
7) I guess?
8) a somewhat chubby plus

You're forgetting blind's rotting corpse. You'll remember when you become grave buddies when you're immediately oneshot by a steroi-rhoa.

But hey youtube's gonna be better than ever with the new endgame videos!

"

Char1983 wrote:

"

vio wrote:

i'm afraid, the game will keep being challenging cause that's it's main appeal to players.

It isn't really challenging, though. That is the core thing I learned over the years. The primary thing that decides how far you make it in this game is time investment. PoE is grindy, but grindy is not difficult.

People kill every boss in the game in 24 hours trade and in 80 hours even in HCSSF gaunlet mods. That is not a lot of time, if you personally need drastically more time then sounds like you problem.

"

Antigegner wrote:

At least he brings arguments to the table. You just told us that he annoys you...wow.

You also annoy me. And your quote above was a great addition to the topic...

"

blueeyedevil wrote:

Every new league it is going to be different the game will improve blah blah mean time I hear the same things about content I will NEVER get to play because I will never get there !! So like many out here I am stuck knowing if I join the new release I will just be disappointed again ...

You do realise many people play and enjoy PoE without getting to endgame content, some like myself enjoy rolling new characters. Or trying new skills. You can decide where your end game is, it's not just killing the toughest boss or farming the hardest content.

PoE is deep enough and big enough to find your own fun.

"

RoyalMarauder wrote:

None. :D
This is coming from someone that knows Skills required in different games, and what you actually gain by having this skills.
Like hand eye coordination, and Raw Mouse Control from Kovaaks for example, not even going to talk about the Reaction, Precision, Reactive, Reading, Smoothness, Speed, Strafing and so on.
Can we even compare this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3W-2OTlZ3c

To this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y9qCmvpnNg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFxxWk1cTyE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88gCCpsdlL8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSyA4nVIWpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bexWuHmV32A&t=34s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5AVihXoILk

Of course we can't, and that's why you picked that clip. This isn't a competitive game and saying it has any form of balance known to the field of game design is stretching it thin. However, there's room in its design for skillful play, I'd even say much more than in most other entries of the genre.

The problem is that the genre is built around the idea of beating the game on drawing board and knowing how to make the concept from the board into reality. So, we come to the skill part when the former is restricted in some way, the player might be lacking the knowledge, or might lack the required time, full access to the systems or the content might simply scale so high you can't overpower it anymore. Some, or all of the last three is usually the case in races or challenge events like the class gauntlet we had recently.

I mean, just take races for example, you can get an average casual joe, drill into him all the knowledge and steps needed to win, and I wouldn't put a chaos orb on him actually winning the thing.

"

AbilityPoints wrote:

"

blueeyedevil wrote:

Every new league it is going to be different the game will improve blah blah mean time I hear the same things about content I will NEVER get to play because I will never get there !! So like many out here I am stuck knowing if I join the new release I will just be disappointed again ...

You do realise many people play and enjoy PoE without getting to endgame content, some like myself enjoy rolling new characters. Or trying new skills. You can decide where your end game is, it's not just killing the toughest boss or farming the hardest content.

PoE is deep enough and big enough to find your own fun.

I enjoy taking a unique or combination of uniques and making a build around them. I've also never fought Atziri or any of the other "Big Bads," and I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. =^[.]^=

"

raics wrote:

"

RoyalMarauder wrote:

None. :D
This is coming from someone that knows Skills required in different games, and what you actually gain by having this skills.
Like hand eye coordination, and Raw Mouse Control from Kovaaks for example, not even going to talk about the Reaction, Precision, Reactive, Reading, Smoothness, Speed, Strafing and so on.
Can we even compare this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3W-2OTlZ3c

To this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y9qCmvpnNg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFxxWk1cTyE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88gCCpsdlL8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSyA4nVIWpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bexWuHmV32A&t=34s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5AVihXoILk

Of course we can't, and that's why you picked that clip. This isn't a competitive game and saying it has any form of balance known to the field of game design is stretching it thin. However, there's room in its design for skillful play, I'd even say much more than in most other entries of the genre.

The problem is that the genre is built around the idea of beating the game on drawing board and knowing how to make the concept from the board into reality. So, we come to the skill part when the former is restricted in some way, the player might be lacking the knowledge, or might lack the required time, full access to the systems or the content might simply scale so high you can't overpower it anymore. Some, or all of the last three is usually the case in races or challenge events like the class gauntlet we had recently.

I mean, just take races for example, you can get an average casual joe, drill into him all the knowledge and steps needed to win, and I wouldn't put a chaos orb on him actually winning the thing.

Agree. And as i said you can make ARPG a skill-based, and it would be a great skill-based with very high skill-ceiling, but for that the speed needs to be way different, as well as the gameplay.

"

teodar1987 wrote:

"

Souchirou wrote:

Lets see:

1) Zones on the atlas cut in half.
2) Delve made more rewarding at lower depths.
3) Rework of the passive tree making it easier to get the core elements of your build.
4) Rework of defenses to give more defense with less investment.
5) Uber lab just takes one trail / trade for the blessing to access.
6) More items, especially currency items now drop as stacks instead of lose currency. Less clicks = more time to level.
7) Easier access to guild stash.
8) ctrl + click on the prophecy lady now takes you directly to the sell screen.

I'm probably forgetting at least a few others. 3.16 is probably one of the biggest changes in time investment required in years. You should be celebrating!

1) good maps and most rewarding atlas passives removed
2) don't know how significant that buff will be , not holding my breath
3) skill points are already extremely tight and clusters serve an identical function, seems like some grace toward ssf which is actually awesome
4) they removed dodge, buffed eva by an insignificant amount and killed the block ascendancy
5) a good change but frankly you got all the trials by the time you needed the last 2 asc points anyway
6) a big fat plus.
7) I guess?
8) a somewhat chubby plus

You're forgetting blind's rotting corpse. You'll remember when you become grave buddies when you're immediately oneshot by a steroi-rhoa.

But hey youtube's gonna be better than ever with the new endgame videos!

1) That doesn't change that we are going from 150+ maps to a 100. So will cutting down the zones and thus the speed you can complete conquers by half will also speed things up a lot.

I also think we have plenty of really strong Atlas passive left, I know I will be struggling which want I want to use.

All Atlas passives: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSEJD5OlHP3WB4AlRqNNg0ppcM8Db8vKDeGWDd6ykJr6yt_HgxJcK8h4mWxVxnJlBFQe2DzIXegQLT1/pubhtml

2) Actually, we do and its pretty big. depth 500 is now roughly equal to a 1000 depth and depth 1500 will be similar to depth 6000. They are also increasing rewards and boss spawns. They are also letting you start at a lower depth than before.

3) Many clusters have been nerfed by making small clusters medium clusters making the less relevant for most builds while at the same time adding a lot of those special ability that where previously only on clusters or unique / rare gear are now on the skill tree as masteries. So it will actually be quite a bit easier to get your build together which means less time you need to invest.

4)Defenses will be kinda wait and see but it has been made easier you will need fewer layers of defense to get a good defense. And maybe not everyone will be using dodge/evasion/block builds now :)

5) I've had plenty of times that I started a league late and ended doing 50+ maps before I finally found that last trail. If you're lucky or work with others it was really easy but many people don't do that so this will be a big timesaver for them.

6,7, 8) One of the biggest time wasters, especially for casual players is the time they waste in their hideout. Decreasing the number of clicks will mean they will be back in maps quicker than before. Which means you spend more time progressing instead of faffing around in your hideout.

9) Forgot this in the original post but unveiling crafting modifier also got a massive buff as you only need to unveil one time to get all the tiers unlocked.

Overall, I think we will see the average player get further into the game than ever before in 3.16.

I for one am looking forward to the next league, it's going to be an interesting one ^^