Are loot boxes legal? Is it one of the main money source from GGG?

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NoyAvargel wrote:

i wouldnt want to see loot boxes gone ... but i do think they should allow some sort of use for duplicated items.. or some salave shit tons of duplicate to guarantee 1 specific item in case you had bad luck

I would easily buy 2-3x the number of boxes if we could just convert duplicates to copies of the hideout decorations. They're already in the cheapest tier of rewards, fairly close to what you pay for the box. And they aren't something I'm ever going to spend $5 on each when I want a dozen of them.

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

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IMO some ppl may succeed at sueing GGG.

On what grounds? Cuz you think mystery boxes are gambling? I doubt that is a sufficient cause to sue a company. On top of that GGG is owned by tencent which is a gaming tycoon. I doubt that any sane person wants to clash with a multi billion dollar conglomerate in court. You would get crushed so badly that you would be in debt until you die :D Are you aware of the attorney costs? This is a huge risk and go for it if you can but be ready to become a slave for a small mystery box that is literally not a gambling item ^^
Not a smart move my friend ^^ Not at all...

1 - MAY doesnt mean WILL.

2 - Doesnt matter what I think, since neither I did say I'm doing nor I'm a lawyer.

3 - What you doubt about doesnt matter to anyone here. You seem like very afraid of being crushed, some ppl just don't have that fear you do, have more money than you do, and probably wont be in debt until they die, lol.

4 - Attorney doesnt cost that much if you succeed, and good attorneys may succeed, law studies are not that simple, change from place to place, so does the attorney costs. That's why we have law schools and they offer a degree.

5 - Not a smart answer my friend ^^ not at all...

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alhazred70 wrote:

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raics wrote:

That isn't really the case, as you need three basic things to make a gamble, element of chance, a win of value and a wager. There's no chance involved in buying a game or paying subscription

There's no chance in buying a game? I mean I don't feel like you've thought this through at even a basic level in your haste to try and argue. Anyway if you can't see the chance; I don't think my time is well spent explaining the obvious.

You clearly don't know what gambling means man, sorry.

It's not obvious, what is obvious is what I said above. lol.

"

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

"

IMO some ppl may succeed at sueing GGG.

On what grounds? Cuz you think mystery boxes are gambling? I doubt that is a sufficient cause to sue a company. On top of that GGG is owned by tencent which is a gaming tycoon. I doubt that any sane person wants to clash with a multi billion dollar conglomerate in court. You would get crushed so badly that you would be in debt until you die :D Are you aware of the attorney costs? This is a huge risk and go for it if you can but be ready to become a slave for a small mystery box that is literally not a gambling item ^^
Not a smart move my friend ^^ Not at all...

1 - MAY doesnt mean WILL.

2 - Doesnt matter what I think, since neither I did say I'm doing nor I'm a lawyer.

3 - What you doubt about doesnt matter to anyone here. You seem like very afraid of being crushed, some ppl just don't have that fear you do, have more money than you do, and probably wont be in debt until they die, lol.

4 - Attorney doesnt cost that much if you succeed, and good attorneys may succeed, law studies are not that simple, change from place to place, so does the attorney costs. That's why we have law schools and they offer a degree.

5 - Not a smart answer my friend ^^ not at all...

"if you succeed" does this small chance worth giving your life away?
Did you even read what I said? I have a lot of money but what I am saying is you will lose even if you have a lot ^^ this isn't like 10k$ costs ^^ You will lose everything :D I know u don't know much about law stuff so you might wanna keep guessing away from things that you don't understand ^^

The attorney costs I mentioned was not your side, it was the multi billion dollar conglomerate's side's costs ^^ When you lose, you lose big ^^

[Removed by Support]

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Tyrion2 wrote:

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vio wrote:

there is nothing the european gov can do if ggg doesn't have a office in europe. well, except closing down their european servers. do we want that?

The privacy laws of NZ are pretty strict as well and dont stop at their border.

every law of every country stops at their borders.


if a country doesn't like their people to do business with another country, they can block money transfers into that country. or make it illegal for their own people to buy stuff from that company abroad.

they can't forbid that company in that other country to sell stuff to their own people because for selling stuff, only the laws of that other country applies as well as export/import rules to the respective other country.

imagine russian or chinese law would apply to american citicens...

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ciel289 wrote:

ya poe lootboxes are fine

i dont like them,but

-they give you the exact odds of the mtx you could get
-they arent tradeable
-mtx gets added toi the store later

I see the 'mtx gets added to the store later' argument a lot and that point always irks me.

The loot boxes themselves ALWAYS exist exclusive from what is purchasable in store. It doesn't matter if 'Box D' ends up in the store because when it does, 'Box E' has already replaced it.

And that's not a trivial point because there is a driving compulsion for players to purchase and own that which is new. I don't ever see people randomly excited to go purchase an old PoE mtx set from 5 years ago. It's repeatably observable that there is a compulsion to own the newest vanity items.

I haven't watched a video by Jim Sterling in a long time but he made some good points about the 'skin economy' in the past and are worth a watch.

I would agree that there are some things GGG does better than others regarding lootboxes, but they are still lootboxes and I'm not surprised that they generate 1/3rd of GGG's revenue.

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

"

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

On what grounds? Cuz you think mystery boxes are gambling? I doubt that is a sufficient cause to sue a company. On top of that GGG is owned by tencent which is a gaming tycoon. I doubt that any sane person wants to clash with a multi billion dollar conglomerate in court. You would get crushed so badly that you would be in debt until you die :D Are you aware of the attorney costs? This is a huge risk and go for it if you can but be ready to become a slave for a small mystery box that is literally not a gambling item ^^
Not a smart move my friend ^^ Not at all...

1 - MAY doesnt mean WILL.

2 - Doesnt matter what I think, since neither I did say I'm doing nor I'm a lawyer.

3 - What you doubt about doesnt matter to anyone here. You seem like very afraid of being crushed, some ppl just don't have that fear you do, have more money than you do, and probably wont be in debt until they die, lol.

4 - Attorney doesnt cost that much if you succeed, and good attorneys may succeed, law studies are not that simple, change from place to place, so does the attorney costs. That's why we have law schools and they offer a degree.

5 - Not a smart answer my friend ^^ not at all...

"if you succeed" does this small chance worth giving your life away?
Did you even read what I said? I have a lot of money but what I am saying is you will lose even if you have a lot ^^ this isn't like 10k$ costs ^^ You will lose everything :D I know u don't know much about law stuff so you might wanna keep guessing away from things that you don't understand ^^

The attorney costs I mentioned was not your side, it was the multi billion dollar conglomerate's side's costs ^^ When you lose, you lose big ^^

[Removed by Support]

0 - sorry, it seems like you didn't understand what I said, I'll repeat then: "if YOU succeed" - I didn't say I'm doing it. ^^

1 - giving my life away? LOL You know me so well, all of my life right? hahahaha ^^

2 - lose money doesnt mean being in debt for the rest of your life, nor lose everything, like you said. Since you don't know what's everything for me, you just guess. ^^

3 - Doesnt matter what I know about law stuff, since I didn't guess or say anything but the obvious. ^^

4 - Clearly you don't the prices variety on other countries, the only one guessing prices here is you. I didn't guess nothing. ^^

5 - There's no hill, there's no death. You shouldn't be so afraid. ^^

6 - "but you go try to sue f.ing Tencent" - please don't use that term here, we're all family. Please, go back to answer 0. ^^

7 - I'm sorry if you feel hurt, but I'm not gonna get hurt, don't worry, aight? ^^

8 - Again, not the best answer my friend ^^ not at all...

Kindly regards.

under most (all that i've seen but giving some room for newer ones since i last looked)restrictions linked to loot boxes they are not ilegal nor against any restrictions.

You are clearly given the odds, you also are clearly told that you can purchase them at the price listed at a later date, and you are not even close to feeling forced to gamble (unlike freemium games that use loot boxes)
You can also request that GGG prevent you from being able to purchase them.
And you have to be an adult to play/purchase (according to the ToS you agree to)

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muzein wrote:

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ciel289 wrote:

ya poe lootboxes are fine

i dont like them,but

-they give you the exact odds of the mtx you could get
-they arent tradeable
-mtx gets added toi the store later

I see the 'mtx gets added to the store later' argument a lot and that point always irks me.

The loot boxes themselves ALWAYS exist exclusive from what is purchasable in store. It doesn't matter if 'Box D' ends up in the store because when it does, 'Box E' has already replaced it.

And that's not a trivial point because there is a driving compulsion for players to purchase and own that which is new. I don't ever see people randomly excited to go purchase an old PoE mtx set from 5 years ago. It's repeatably observable that there is a compulsion to own the newest vanity items.

I haven't watched a video by Jim Sterling in a long time but he made some good points about the 'skin economy' in the past and are worth a watch.

I would agree that there are some things GGG does better than others regarding lootboxes, but they are still lootboxes and I'm not surprised that they generate 1/3rd of GGG's revenue.

dont get me wrong
im fully aware that the for 3 month exclusive is kinda predatory

lootboxes are bad and i wish they wouldnt exist,period

ggg does it better than other companies which doesnt mean much
and imo they are moraly acceptable
by that i mean a normal (in terms of health) adult person wont run into any problems with these and there is no reason to not allow them

its kionda compareable to all the legal drugs like alcohol
there a ppl that will suffer because of it and these ppl should always get help and get it easily
these ppl are actually a very small minority compared to everyone else

you simply cant use law or moral to prevent every worst case scenario

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alhazred70 wrote:

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raics wrote:

That isn't really the case, as you need three basic things to make a gamble, element of chance, a win of value and a wager. There's no chance involved in buying a game or paying subscription

There's no chance in buying a game? I mean I don't feel like you've thought this through at even a basic level in your haste to try and argue. Anyway if you can't see the chance; I don't think my time is well spent explaining the obvious.

You clearly don't know what gambling means man, sorry.

It's not obvious, what is obvious is what I said above. lol.

What is obvious is that you have your own special gatekeeping idea of what gambling is, and don't want to consider its broader and more intellectually accurate definition.

Risking something for a chance at something, anyway as I said, I'm obviously wasting my time with a person who has their own personal gatekeeping definitions.