General reason why the game is failing and I want your input !

Hi everyone,

I would like to say what I've been thinking of for a while and ask your opinion on whether I'm right or wrong and why. I watched the 3 podcasts so far and really liked the last one because Grimro is very good at explaining things and they touched some subjects they didn't discuss before. With that being said here is my thinking about the "Main" issue aka big picture stuff.

According to my own reasoning, the issue might be with the hypotheses they make and believe them to be facts instead of doing the good engineering thing and test them with experiments (like in a PTR or by labeling something as a clear experiment in the live version). What I mean by that is for example, the most obvious one, why they don't do something like endless delve for secondary character leveling or something similar as an alternative. Because they think it would be boring even faster and disregard the idea.

If we take that example and compare it to a game like Diablo 3 (I know most of you hate it but disregard this as a thought experiment), there is a campaign or adventure mode (mostly rifts) to level. Most people don't do the campaign because it's obviously less efficient but also the rifts offer different layouts, monster types, rift guardians, etc. I feel it's way more diverse than a straight path you play exactly the same over and over like the campaign (which for me means way more fun).

The second obviously bad hypothesis would be that power creep is bad. This will probably be very controversial but I don't think it's bad for several reasons.
1- Compare the game environnement to the real life, can you have too much money and too much power? Yes but those are very specific cases and generally people look towards improving their life not destroying them which I feel they are doing.
2- Most player play softcore trade and just want to be strong and reach their goal like killing maven or whatever. I really don't believe they care about the guy they never met to be stronger. Also, we don't have leaderboards and they wouldn't work anyway because of RMT and Group play.
3- The answer to the game getting easier is not a power creep problem but a progression design problem.

Finally, I believe they lost complete touch with the fundamental of a video game which is to have fun. I see all the streamers playing PoE and NONE of them smile except for cutedog_ which is a big memer :P. I like to laugh and smile. MAKE ME SMILE, how hard can this be.

Well thanks for reading and I'm looking forward to reading your answers! :)

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“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.” - Aldous Huxley
Show me some facts boys !

I don't agree with your premise. I don't believe PoE is "dying."

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Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

I don't agree with your premise. I don't believe PoE is "dying."

I never said poe is dying. I said it is failing. Failing at a great many thing that I won't be listing.

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Jadrann wrote:

I never said poe is dying. I said it is failing. Failing at a great many thing that I won't be listing.

Dying/failing - it's doing neither of these things by any objective measure.

There are no facts here, just opinions, so please don't try to summ up your post like it would be based on facts, because it is not.

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Jadrann wrote:

If we take that example and compare it to a game like Diablo 3 (I know most of you hate it but disregard this as a thought experiment), there is a campaign or adventure mode (mostly rifts) to level. Most people don't do the campaign because it's obviously less efficient but also the rifts offer different layouts, monster types, rift guardians, etc. I feel it's way more diverse than a straight path you play exactly the same over and over like the campaign (which for me means way more fun).

Leveling in diablo 3 by campaign or rifts is equally boring af, only difference is time efficiency and it is the only reason people pick rifts over campaign. If leveling through campaign would be faster than on rifts, people would do campaign.

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Jadrann wrote:

The second obviously bad hypothesis would be that power creep is bad. This will probably be very controversial but I don't think it's bad for several reasons.
1- Compare the game environnement to the real life, can you have too much money and too much power? Yes but those are very specific cases and generally people look towards improving their life not destroying them which I feel they are doing.

If you will give everyone 10mln USD, how many people will refuse? none? how much price of bread would go up? You would have to give everyone food for life otherwise economy would balance around it (inflation = nerfs), but then, would anyone work at bakery, or work at all? It is one of the best recipes for !modern! society to collapse. For PoE, at some point, it would turn game into a movie, you don't need to interact to succeed (something that diablo 3 is near now).

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Jadrann wrote:

3- The answer to the game getting easier is not a power creep problem but a progression design problem.

It is more of a power creep and knowledge base - even if mechanics wouldn't change, the more you kill sirus, the easier it gets, because you get to know fight better. You get knowledge what stats benefit your gear most, how to craft them, where to acquire mats for it.

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Jadrann wrote:

Finally, I believe they lost complete touch with the fundamental of a video game which is to have fun.

I think you don't know how first games were challenging and how much fun people had playing them. It seems young players prefer playing a movie, instead of achieving something that requires effort. For some less effort = more fun?

Finally, PoE is far from failing, 3.15 is one of the best patches I have played.

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Nomancs wrote:

There are no facts here, just opinions, so please don't try to summ up your post like it would be based on facts, because it is not.

I start by saying "According to my own reasoning" which mean nothing in this post was facts it's just speculation and that's why I want your opinion please learn to read.

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Nomancs wrote:

Finally, PoE is far from failing, 3.15 is one of the best patches I have played.

Obviously you don't know what's going on with the game and why they make those podcasts, I don't need your input.

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Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

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Jadrann wrote:

I never said poe is dying. I said it is failing. Failing at a great many thing that I won't be listing.

Dying/failing - it's doing neither of these things by any objective measure.

Obviously you don't know what's going on with the game and why they make those podcasts, I don't need your input.

Wow, no need to be hostile only because I didn't agree with you and point out your mistakes.

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Jadrann wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

so please don't try to summ up your post like it would be based on facts, because it is not.

I start by(...)

I didn't mentioned what you start with, but how you ended it. Maybe apply your own advice to yourself?

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Jadrann wrote:

please learn to read.

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Jadrann wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

Finally, PoE is far from failing, 3.15 is one of the best patches I have played.

Obviously you don't know what's going on with the game and why they make those podcasts, I don't need your input.

Obviously, according to you, I am not allowed to have fun and post my own opinion? Is this another drama topic with only one goal - to complain about the game and get hostile towards anyone who disagree? I think you didn't even checked how many people are still playing compared to last 5-7 leagues.

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Jadrann wrote:

Most player play softcore trade and just want to be strong and reach their goal like killing maven or whatever. I really don't believe they care about the guy they never met to be stronger. Also, we don't have leaderboards and they wouldn't work anyway because of RMT and Group play.

It all boils down to how high you think you're supposed to be able to climb. Yes, "everyone wants to reach their goals", but should "everyone" be able to have Maven as a goal? I sure as hell don't think they should. And the amount of people (like me) actually being able to have her as a pretty short-term goal because of all the power creep, is maybe too big?

FUN is subjective - and misunderstood. For me, progress is fun. Playing is fun. Reaching every possible goal means no more progression and no more playing - for me. That's why I always like there to be goals I cannot reach, which is totally OK.

If someone requires to be able to do everything to have fun without grinding, there are tons of games out there.

One thing that irks me is when "who cares what power the other player has" comes into the argument.

You absolutely SHOULD care how powerful other players are, because the game is then balanced around that high end. You may think short-term it doesn't affect your day-to-day playing, but in reality the absurd damage/speed/health of enemies continues to increase BECAUSE of those high end numbers that most players can't achieve.

If the game was static (no regular balancing/updates), which most modern games simply aren't, then you might not have to worry about what's going on outside your own single player experience. However, PoE is a game that regularly changes every 3 months and it takes into account the top dps/top skills/top survivability when determining the nerfs of the next update.

This is one of the worst arguments I've seem come up time and time again in various forms because it is so so so misguided and shortsighted.