POE is for casuals players¿

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Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

PoE's imminent Doom is greatly exaggerated.

Agreed.

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Gorathan wrote:

The most difficult content is intended for players with plenty of freetime or streamers.

Corrected you there, thank me l8er

Just free time is not enough. You actually have to use that time effectively with a good build and equipment. Which is as it should be.

Corrected you there. No need to thank me - me being right... and enjoying it - is thanks enough.

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Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

Perception is quite the thing. I see a lot of entitlement too. You might be on to something with the streamers. I never saw these sorts of cry-fests in Diablo II and Torchlight I-II on the Blizzard/Runic forums. Nobody was overly bent out of shape that the vast majority most people could never beat the Pandemonium Event, or that few builds could Survive New Game+++ in torchlight.

That's because you could beat Pandemonium event with a few needed items which are realistically farmable and you had unlimited portals to do that, its pain but its doable.

Don't remember about something that hard in torchlight, but I farmed some op gear from some bosses, and they dropped that I needed too. It was some 2 pistols build or something like that, but I can't remember any overtuned rng in this game, nothing to complain about just had some fun.

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SpacePilot3000 wrote:

That's because you could beat Pandemonium event with a few needed items which are realistically farmable and you had unlimited portals to do that, its pain but its doable.

Don't remember about something that hard in torchlight, but I farmed some op gear from some bosses, and they dropped that I needed too. It was some 2 pistols build or something like that, but I can't remember any overtuned rng in this game, nothing to complain about just had some fun.

What items would those be? I play Diablo 2 still. To beat pandemonium, even on a hammer pally, you're going to need several high-rune words, a prime circlet and good charms. The bosses of Pandemonium event also regenerate their hit points at a rapid pace, and summon waves of mobs with a good selection of immunities. So zerging the portal does you no good unless you actually kill one of the three.

Torchlight I had the infinte dungeons, and by level 200, even the smallest projectile was a one-shot. Torchlight II had New Game +, ++ and +++. The equipment levels scaled with the monsters, so the only way to get the best gear was to run through New Game +++. By New Game ++, everything was a one shot unless you were a maximally stacked engineer. But if you wanted to farm the 5k base damage weapons for Racoon Crafting, you had to work through it.

You think PoE is hard? Imagine every single projectile being able to kill you in one shot. There was about one build per character type that could handle New Game +++ in Torchlight II. All except the engineer used various block mechanics, since any hit at all was instant death. The engineer could scale his shield enough that he could take a couple of hits. Perfect use of each class's dash skill was mandatory.

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Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

What items would those be? I play Diablo 2 still. To beat pandemonium, even on a hammer pally, you're going to need several high-rune words, a prime circlet and good charms. The bosses of Pandemonium event also regenerate their hit points at a rapid pace, and summon waves of mobs with a good selection of immunities. So zerging the portal does you no good unless you actually kill one of the three.

You need wand with life tap and any CB on gear, not even dracs or exile. If you have a goal to beat ubers its not too hard to make smiter for that. The point is its possible if you want to do this. Like there is a way to do this which is not like just drop mirror but real way.
See this for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI2dIY-hSro

And also you could kill d2 clone with just your cold sorc using Edge bow, which prevents its regen, all you need is runes from nightmare countess. D2 is great in that aspect - there are deterministic ways to do things, despite its being a mess without gear.

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Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

Torchlight I had the infinte dungeons, and by level 200, even the smallest projectile was a one-shot. Torchlight II had New Game +, ++ and +++. The equipment levels scaled with the monsters, so the only way to get the best gear was to run through New Game +++. By New Game ++, everything was a one shot unless you were a maximally stacked engineer. But if you wanted to farm the 5k base damage weapons for Racoon Crafting, you had to work through it.

I installed t2 just to check my chars and I was in NG+5 and I don't remember having like impossible grind wall, but I farmed some gear for this. Infinte dungeons is like deep delve, I'm talking about content which have quest associated with it, like in PoE its Kill Maven for example.

That video is insanity. A testament to pain and death. A guy also cleared hell mode using a fire-bolt sorceress with no equipment.

But that's not a realistic depiction of what people are be using to clear Pandemonium. Not even Mathil would try a build that low end. That is an example of what is technically possible, but in no way is that typical. You'd be looking normally at about 10-20 HR's in gear to comfortably take down Pandemonium, which will take you as much or more time to piece together as it would a Mavin-capable suit in PoE.

If you're playing ladder where you can upgrade runes. If not... you're in for a much much longer grind.


For torchlight II New Game++ and higher, you're not getting far unless you master Racoon crafting. Which is every bit as grindy as getting a Maven-capale character in PoE. And you're not just grinding the racoons, you're grinding titanic sums of cash to fuel their random enchants. Anyone complaining about PoE crafting "random-numbers" has never tried to make an all damage enchant weapon in Torchlight II.

All hail Karkozi the All-Powerful.

I wrote a nice guide HERE: http://www.dethguild.com/torchlight_enchanting_guide.php

No, don't know if it ever was, but know it will never be. There is just too much stuff in the game, they are not able to handle anymore, game doesnt explain it decently.

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Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

A guy also cleared hell mode using a fire-bolt sorceress with no equipment.

And that's cool that game allows that.

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Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

But that's not a realistic depiction of what people are be using to clear Pandemonium. Not even Mathil would try a build that low end. That is an example of what is technically possible, but in no way is that typical. You'd be looking normally at about 10-20 HR's in gear to comfortably take down Pandemonium, which will take you as much or more time to piece together as it would a Mavin-capable suit in PoE.

If you're playing ladder where you can upgrade runes. If not... you're in for a much much longer grind.

The possibility is the key here, I don't mind to sit 8 hours dying to accomplish something on low budget, it feels rewarding. This guy just showed its possible with really trash gear, and with better items its getting much smoother. I'm playing solo on pluggy and with HoZ and Dracs my smiter taking ubers pretty good, not super fast but I can kill all the mobs on the way and not die every time. All my HRs are going to other chars so for ubers its just uniques. Didn't even used cta doing them.

Upgrading runes is still a thing since in Lk you mostly get sur and you need to make bers and jahs from them.

As for Mathil, I'm not playing 24/7 and for me its important to have the ability to do content, being it slow or not as efficient as it could be with best gear, maybe I will die 100 times, but I want to get that kill. And some way to upgrade the gear to die 50 times next time. D2 has what.

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Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

For torchlight II New Game++ and higher, you're not getting far unless you master Racoon crafting. Which is every bit as grindy as getting a Maven-capale character in PoE.

I wrote a nice guide HERE: http://www.dethguild.com/torchlight_enchanting_guide.php

I don't mind grind, but getting Maven-capable character is not grind, its rng with meta builds and waste of time for others, at least in SSF. Maybe my view is a bit shifted here, but I like to grind for items, not currency and t2, as far as I remember, had ways to do this.

I've always wondered what people mean when they say "PoE is not for casuals" or "this game is made for the 1%". We ALL know casuals can play and enjoy the game. We also know that the amount of content that is being aimed at the 1%, is probably around 1%.

So, when people say "casuals can't play PoE", do they mean "casuals can't enjoy everything the game has to offer"? When people say "this game is only for the 1%", do they mean that T19 Delirium maps are only for the 1%?

No matter how you twist and turn it, it's just wrong. TONS of casuals are enjoying PoE, without acting entitled to have access to every endgame content.

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SpacePilot3000 wrote:

I don't mind grind, but getting Maven-capable character is not grind, its rng with meta builds and waste of time for others, at least in SSF. Maybe my view is a bit shifted here, but I like to grind for items, not currency and t2, as far as I remember, had ways to do this.

Well SSF in PoE 2 is a challenge mode designed to be very hard to get gear. In Standard and Beta League, getting a Mavin capable character is quite easy following some guides and trading. Easier than getting a realistically Pandemonium capable Diablo 2 character. Because trade games are largely empty these days. It is actually quite a challenge to trade for things unless you're using jsp. Which means you'll be doing *thousands* of runs to find your gear.

As for Torchlight II, you were not completing the New Game challenge modes without spending a LOT of time racoon grinding i.e. crafting. Unless you had a full skull of Lemonay geared engineer scaling Forcefield, it was one-shot the enemies off screen or be one-shot yourself. That required 4 damage mods on your weapon crafts until the weapons scaled up to the 5k bases in New Game ++. The Unique Sets you gambled off the robot in the map works won't be cutting it.