【Not off topic 】Why RTS is dead ,and Poe is following its footsteps
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【Not OT】
Why RTS is dead (RTS means Real time strategy ) 1. Gaming meta changed (FPS,RPG rise) 2. Gaming time too long compared to the others 3.The build up requires too much time ,for a short moment fight 4.The skill needed requires long time training, this wide the gap between experience and new players, and the frustration make new players turn away. 5.Those new RTS added too many content to the game in order to “improve” there peers …instead they make new players more resist to try the game. 6.Rise of MOBA (dota lol) compares to RTS ,MOBA provides a quick and easier game play,and succeed its father RTS… So u would wonder, why this post is not off topic ? Just think of how POE is heading, ring a bell ? Sure theres games like AOC 2 ,that are support by some core loyal players… but Poe is still growing … to grow we need new players and pass it out so that the community grows … 3.13 everything is looking good… I'm so surprised why GGG take a U turn and start hammering everything… now look at 3.15, 16% shield throw, and 13% spectre … theres literally no build diversity at all… If ggg want to force players into specific build …I would say good job. anyway I can go on and on…so I will,stop there What POE needs is not more content or unusable or OP New skill that will get hammered next time… what POE needs is 1.fine tune the game into a mutual ground where new players can narrow the gap between experience players or at least they are taken care of,not destroyed by nerfs… 2.Too much league mechanics added to the core game…I think what GGG's next league is to merge two or three previous league machanics into one simple and easy to engage "league" it's time to tidy up… I know the universe is in a constant expansion …but for POE don't have to… and I don't think both developers and players wana keep track of hundreds of league mechanisms …theres gonna be a point where those league need to be simplified and fit into the core game… I don't how, but ggg please try. I hope POE survive… please u don't head the way u are going …like RTS games… Last bumped on Aug 15, 2021, 3:56:46 PM
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For my part i don't know what PoE need but i know what it dont need.
The """vision""" of chris. |
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" That is actually almost all false, the main reason "whay rts ded" is activision blizzard that fails to make any decent product for last 18 years, yet people insist that "this is it the rts to play" because they be casual af. Meanwhile we enjoy age of empiress tournaments just as much as we did back then. And even the microsoft's recent remaster was well done with little complaint. Compare to warcraft remaster, which had like 4/100 rating from everyone and you will see which bell rings.  And gosh i would love to see good act blizzard game, i have 400bucks on my battle net balance.(from selling in RMAH in d3) I just do not. I feel pretty, Oh, so pretty,
I feel pretty, and witty and gay, And I pity Any girl who isn’t me today! | |
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RTS is dead because there isn't enough money in it for major publishers, no other reason.
Why is complicated, automatically not console viable, niche market, advanced users and not in vogue right now as well as requiring significant technical talent. It basically bled out, the less risky RTS is TBS and we still get a few big sellers of those - enough that developers try to emulate them. Civ sells very well for example as did the xcom reboots or fire emblem on console. There are similarities with ARPGs for sure but most of the lack of development in this area is because the single biggest IP holder does absolutely nothing with it despite it being a major cash cow. Imagine for a moment that Activision made the original modern warfare and then never developed another FPS - that is Blizzard. In the case of Starcraft its simple, not enough return for the greedy but for Diablo its corporate mismanagement to miss an opportunity on the scale they have. I realize they are making D4 btw but still its been 9 years since D3. There have been 10 CoD copy pastas since then, 10. I bring that up because I think its a fine bookend for the other side of the development spectrum, you have barely produces anything vs in my eyes series fatigue levels of releases. tldr - rts is dead because PC only, reserved to niche developers, arpgs low burner because of blizzard but plenty of room to be a dominant market. |
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eh... looks lot of debate on what killed RTS...
but obviously im just using it as an example for failure... Btw someone mention about Money and "Chris vision"... i think they are both key factor as well... true money wise RTS and ARPG is a small group, that is why we need to grow our player size.... more people means more money to make hence more resource pump into the game.....and now POE is on the track of "core gamer only" this is gonna kill POE 100% for sure. and about "Chris vision",well they just have no idea how to sail this ship into.... not a market guy for sure, but i kinda respect how he would like to ram the ship into danger and stick to the course... i just hope the ship wont wreck and we end up in some beach of new Zeland.... |
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Well RTS has quite steep learning curve from the get go (base management, resourses, army management, choosing correct units, etc.), once you learn it it's very rewarding genre to play, but you need to invest a lot of time.
Just look at SC2 - a lot of build orders, counters to counters to counters to counters... everything is super fast, you need to manage your base (macro) while still controling all units in control groups and even using their abilities (micro) - it takes years to even reach decent level, and even more to master it. Not a lot of people invest that much time. I personally really love single player RTS'es, less stress and I can simply enjoy my time (atm I am replaying Stronghold Crusader missions and yet again having a blast while playing it); I even super enjoy SC2 campaign, I finished it like 5 times already and that's not last of it. RTS needs to find a bit more casual approach, then it will attract more people. |
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" The point of my post really is RTS isn't an example of failure it just isn't economically viable compared to other options so we are reliant on smaller developers and indie. That isn't a parallel to ARPGs where the money is there but the product isn't. You'd probably do better drawing linkage to a genre like mmos frankly or GaaS at large. Both of those are hard to formulate an argument against though as they make plenty of $$$ I just personally think they could make far more if they actually moved forwards. MMO's entered stasis since vanilla WoW, we've had a few minor deviations to less or greater success but aside from that its stifled genre. |
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" I love games like Stronghold Crusader but the AI is so, so bad. I don't like micromanage-intensive RTS like Warcraft. Even AOE 2 gets a bit too much for me. I much prefer to sit back and strategize, which is why I find myself playing games like Civilization or Stellaris when I have that kind of gaming itch to scratch. I can take my time, think, plan, not worry about fast reflexes and certainly not worry about playing vs some teen or 20-something that can handle the game better than my middle aged body can. RTS hasn't been a popular genre for a while now. It's all about FPS. For a while it was all about MMORPGs and even they are falling to the wayside. 10-15 years ago there were so many new MMORPGs. Never thought I'd see the day when they fell out of favor. Maybe FPS will fall out of favor too. Will probably be replaced by some hybrid FPS-MMORPG-VR genre. I do agree with point 2 in OP though: There are too many league mechanics added to the core game. It's become bloated. The acts mean absolutely nothing anymore too. For a new player it's simply overwhelming. I still haven't figured out wtf is going on with that Immortal Syndicate crap, or with all the crafting options. Crafting IMO shouldn't even be a part of a game like this, not to the extent it is. I just want to play a treasure-hunting APRG, not deal with all that other stuff. Last edited by MrSparkle001#1624 on Aug 6, 2021, 9:08:53 AM
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It was always weird to me how people play games like sc2 or cc3 on competitive level. Clicking intensity is insane and especially in sc2 case it looks like player tries to handle monkey brain army to fight somewhat better. I also enjoyed slower paced rts like stronghold and turne based civ and heroes 3/4. One rts i really liked when i was kid was submarine titans (i wonder how many of u recognizes this title :) ). Aeo2 was also ok when not rushing.
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"I don't have the attention span for RTS. I tend to wander off both inside my head , and away from the screen. |
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