OMG I think I just realized the biggest problem with the trade system!

Hello,

First, I love the game! It is easily one of the best games available online today!

Second, I have hated the trade system in this game since day one! I have found it confusing and tedious and the need for macros that always mis-price rares and my lack of knowledge and experience in dealing with all those rares is what has led to me quitting leagues early! It to much to process for new players. They are flooded with rares and they have like 15 tiers of rolls of thousands of mods and they all seem somehow relevant to a new player with build videos swimming around in their heads! LUL, honestly I believe the flood of rares along with the inability to know what is ACTUALLY good for your build and what is ACTUALLY good for those builds swimming around causing your stash to filled in a couple days is so massively huge that most new players like me quit from "Rare Item Processing Syndrom" - aka R.I.P.S.! LUL

Third, is what can be done about this? I believe a simple and easy implementation of ONE SINGLE STEP will alleviate this entire problem! The solution is that when a player does Ctrl+C in game and then Ctrl+V into the official POE-Trade website they now currently get a result like this "https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Expedition/nGQpvWlu0" for the item below: ...

///
Item Class: One Hand Swords
Rarity: Rare
Fate Needle
Elder Sword
--------
One Handed Sword
Physical Damage: 47-87 (augmented)
Elemental Damage: 24-47 (augmented)
Critical Strike Chance: 5.00%
Attacks per Second: 1.30
Weapon Range: 11
--------
Requirements:
Level: 47 (unmet)
Str: 81
Dex: 81 (unmet)
--------
Sockets: G-G
--------
Item Level: 47
--------
+330 to Accuracy Rating (implicit)
--------
Adds 11 to 21 Physical Damage
Adds 24 to 47 Fire Damage
+27% to Cold Resistance
+202 to Accuracy Rating
Attacks have 20% chance to cause Bleeding
29% increased Damage with Bleeding
///

... which brings back nothing but sadness mostly. But, more importantly it is the crux of the RIPS that new players experience! The new player doesnt know why their stash is impossibly full and the older players have progressed past this hurdle. But, I am willing to be money it is the bane of new player retention!

IF, you GGG, can improve the search functionality of the official trading website allowing it to accept a copy-paste string from in game into the search bar and it is capable of bringing back rares that are similar then you have will solve RIPS! New players and traders alike will know what those kinds of rares are listed for and you will have solved many trading problems all at once!

No longer will haters complain about macros and pricing on three different websites to get an accurate price. No longer, will new players be at a total loss at the value of an item is to the free market system. No longer, will players be stuffing their stash with garbage. AND, most of all, we will have solved the deadly RIPS! Thus the world can rejoice and Wraeclast will be saved!


Thanks,
Cinyc

PS - If you want to slip me a small % royalty for all profits accrued from the date of this implementation above and beyond normal player retention numbers, then I will buy more loot boxes! LUL THX <3

LUL I should have proofread this! But, you get my point.

When comparing rares the best way is picking the 2 or 3 most important mods and just going with those for comparison purposes. The trick is knowing which 2 or 3 mods to go for. Also, you want to treat resistances as one total pseudo mod. For example, if an item has 10% chaos resist, 30% light, and 40% cold then compare against items with a total of around 80% total resists. Actually looking for everything with 70% and above resistances probably.

"

Turtledove wrote:

When comparing rares the best way is picking the 2 or 3 most important mods and just going with those for comparison purposes. The trick is knowing which 2 or 3 mods to go for. Also, you want to treat resistances as one total pseudo mod. For example, if an item has 10% chaos resist, 30% light, and 40% cold then compare against items with a total of around 80% total resists. Actually looking for everything with 70% and above resistances probably.

I understand there are methods and tricks for interpreting the value of a rare item in various ways that can shed light on the actual value. But, as you have explained it required sorting every mod on every item as it is identified and then consider its base and its item level and its suffixes and its prefixes and its open mod slots and its tier rolls of those mods and its relevance of each of those mods.

Now we can look at all of that try to compare it to the value and usefulness of our currently equipped items or compare it to our build's future needs or compare it to a another build or compare it to market trade value or compare it to crafting possibility or compare it to other things as well.

Once a new player get to the point where they are comparing all of these possible scenarios their stash is full and they cant process items in and out of the stash faster than the drop rate of rares.

However, a simple copy-paste into the official trade site can tell them in seconds if the item is of value. From this they can begin the comparison process. A loot filter and the official website will actually allow new players to play longer and that will actually put more good items on the market! We will literally become more efficient at sorting and trading the best items in POE via new eyes sorting new drops far before all of the comparisons you are mentioning take place!

Thanks for the info tho! <3

I'm not entirely sure a copy-paste function would help with anything...perhaps I am misunderstanding your main point.

Is your main point that you are trying to determine the value of your in-game rares by copying that exact item and searching for similar items? That is what I understand it to be.

The reailty of this: some useless mods on that item would erase items from the trade screen that would otherwise be a viable comparison in value. For example, if your item has 2 desired mods but the other 4 are totally useless then the copy/paste function would NOT show you items with those 2 desired mods only, and instead completely erase the whole thing based on the unwanted mods.

On the other hand, if the copy/paste function were to automatically do an "either/or" search, it would have TOO MANY results which would lead to mispricing (usually undervalued) and misundestandings of value.

Here's a quick example: You have a rare boots with 6 mods. Only 2 of the 6 mods are desirable and worth any value.

1) You copy/paste the item and receive severely limited / zero results because the trade is trying to match the 4 useless mods along with the 2 desired. This results in the player trashing an item that might hold value just based on those 2 mods.

2) You copy/paste and do an "either/or" search. This returns a TON of results based on each individual mod, mostly targeting the least valuable mods you own. This results in excessive scrolling to try and find something similar to your actual item and generally would result in listing an item for far below its actual value.

I can't really see a solution to this issue from simple copy/paste

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

I'm not entirely sure a copy-paste function would help with anything...perhaps I am misunderstanding your main point.

Is your main point that you are trying to determine the value of your in-game rares by copying that exact item and searching for similar items? That is what I understand it to be.

The reailty of this: some useless mods on that item would erase items from the trade screen that would otherwise be a viable comparison in value. For example, if your item has 2 desired mods but the other 4 are totally useless then the copy/paste function would NOT show you items with those 2 desired mods only, and instead completely erase the whole thing based on the unwanted mods.

On the other hand, if the copy/paste function were to automatically do an "either/or" search, it would have TOO MANY results which would lead to mispricing (usually undervalued) and misundestandings of value.

Here's a quick example: You have a rare boots with 6 mods. Only 2 of the 6 mods are desirable and worth any value.

1) You copy/paste the item and receive severely limited / zero results because the trade is trying to match the 4 useless mods along with the 2 desired. This results in the player trashing an item that might hold value just based on those 2 mods.

2) You copy/paste and do an "either/or" search. This returns a TON of results based on each individual mod, mostly targeting the least valuable mods you own. This results in excessive scrolling to try and find something similar to your actual item and generally would result in listing an item for far below its actual value.

I can't really see a solution to this issue from simple copy/paste

agreed

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

I'm not entirely sure a copy-paste function would help with anything...perhaps I am misunderstanding your main point.

Is your main point that you are trying to determine the value of your in-game rares by copying that exact item and searching for similar items? That is what I understand it to be.

The reailty of this: some useless mods on that item would erase items from the trade screen that would otherwise be a viable comparison in value. For example, if your item has 2 desired mods but the other 4 are totally useless then the copy/paste function would NOT show you items with those 2 desired mods only, and instead completely erase the whole thing based on the unwanted mods.

On the other hand, if the copy/paste function were to automatically do an "either/or" search, it would have TOO MANY results which would lead to mispricing (usually undervalued) and misundestandings of value.

Here's a quick example: You have a rare boots with 6 mods. Only 2 of the 6 mods are desirable and worth any value.

1) You copy/paste the item and receive severely limited / zero results because the trade is trying to match the 4 useless mods along with the 2 desired. This results in the player trashing an item that might hold value just based on those 2 mods.

2) You copy/paste and do an "either/or" search. This returns a TON of results based on each individual mod, mostly targeting the least valuable mods you own. This results in excessive scrolling to try and find something similar to your actual item and generally would result in listing an item for far below its actual value.

I can't really see a solution to this issue from simple copy/paste

Good points!

This is more of a technical question about the nature of the search function as it relates to coding the website to query the internal database and the search capability of GGG's database of items for sale.

First, I wrote this so that new players can do the most simple and easy thing possible (copy-paste) into an official GGG utility and expand their item evaluation ability. Literally just let us copy-paste into the official trade site search bar!

Second, let me state that I do not write code. I have never written code and only have a simple understanding of the technical side of this problem.

Third, I will try to explain my thinking as technically as I can. I wrote this post to help new players value items in a quick and efficient and official way.


I imagine the best return for the search results would start with returning all items with the exact name/ilvl/number/type/tier of mods including empty suffixes or prefixes (i understand that is not likely). Then it may need to sort the list by the items with the most matching mods regardless of tier but sorting by ilvl above all else since that will determine the tier of the rolls. Thus a new player would not see right away shaper influenced aesling slammed ring pop in their copy-paste search for two-stone ring that dropped from Innocence! The list would sort further from there im sure but im no expert.

Most new players do not realize there are like 15 tiers of STR-Base-Gloves which determine the range of mod rolls! Then add influences and all the special crafts from unlocked league mechanics and other mods that can only roll on certain bases and tiers and its easy to see why they are confused. But, GGG devs are not confused and thus it is upon them to make the search bar capable of accepting a simple copy-paste from in game and return the most comparable results possible to encourage new players to get good information from an official source!

Thanks! <3

okay yea so I did understand your initial point, and totally get you are approaching it from a noob-friendly place.

It's just a problem with the way any of the trade functions work regardless of whether it's sponsored by GGG or 3rd party. The second you add a "non-valued" mod to the search bar, it devalues the entire search by narrowing the field far too much and excluding valuable information. So in reality, the copy-paste mechanism would hurt new players more than it would help as it would provide them with either zero information, or non-relevant information. Furthermore, if the rares have 5-6 mods it's increasingly likely that the trade would yield NO results which doesn't help anyone. How often would someone have an average rare up for sale that matches the same 6 mods and same 6 tiers of mod as the item being searched?

This is where 3rd party software can fill in the gaps that the trade screen does not show: the value of individual mods. Yes, it takes more time to go through each mod one by one, but it offers much more reliable information for any level of player.

I think the basic premise of your idea is a good one: trying to ease the process for newer players who have less knowledge, while also promoting GGG trade and not 3rd party software. But I think you are over-estimating the value of a copy-paste function with regards to trade.

For example: I plugged in your initial sword idea with no value limiters and I receive zero results back. With a copy-paste, this would be even more likely as it would also limit the tiers of mods. I adjusted the phys damage and fire damage to tier 1 values and still received no results. But if I removed all the mods except those, I DO get a valuation.

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

okay yea so I did understand your initial point, and totally get you are approaching it from a noob-friendly place.

It's just a problem with the way any of the trade functions work regardless of whether it's sponsored by GGG or 3rd party. The second you add a "non-valued" mod to the search bar, it devalues the entire search by narrowing the field far too much and excluding valuable information. So in reality, the copy-paste mechanism would hurt new players more than it would help as it would provide them with either zero information, or non-relevant information. Furthermore, if the rares have 5-6 mods it's increasingly likely that the trade would yield NO results which doesn't help anyone. How often would someone have an average rare up for sale that matches the same 6 mods and same 6 tiers of mod as the item being searched?

This is where 3rd party software can fill in the gaps that the trade screen does not show: the value of individual mods. Yes, it takes more time to go through each mod one by one, but it offers much more reliable information for any level of player.

I think the basic premise of your idea is a good one: trying to ease the process for newer players who have less knowledge, while also promoting GGG trade and not 3rd party software. But I think you are over-estimating the value of a copy-paste function with regards to trade.

For example: I plugged in your initial sword idea with no value limiters and I receive zero results back. With a copy-paste, this would be even more likely as it would also limit the tiers of mods. I adjusted the phys damage and fire damage to tier 1 values and still received no results. But if I removed all the mods except those, I DO get a valuation.

Exactly it came back with zero results!

This should not be the case. Now I understand the likelihood of an exact match is usually zero and I noted that in parenthesis. But, GGG should not allow this. The onus is upon them to make search results return items so that noobs can compare and contrast items listed for sale with prices.

I am not capable of discussing either/or/if/then/else database search functions that will help bring back valid results from a copy-paste search. Perhaps you can expand on this in a way that helps GGG understand what they need to do?

It still does not excuse GGG from not implementing this functionality. GGG should have an algorithm as good or better than any 3rd party macro. And, the idea that it is impossible or even harmful to show related items in a copy-paste search is not valid. Even if the results were wildly priced!

It doesnt even return ONE rare 1H sword! Let alone a Fate Needle
Elder Sword! It literally returns zero items.

This is sad.

At the very least it should recognize their own internal text format of sword-1H-rare-ilvl47-etc-etc-etc! Then have it return 1H rare swords with all the mods that can be rolled on a ilvl47 base. Then once that list is compiled sort ascending by most matching mods then tier rolls etc etc ... it should not bring back ZERO results.

Thanks <3

So basically, the trade is searching for all the modifiers all at once and it only responds with results that check ALL the boxes. This is why we get zero results. There is nothing GGG can do to change this. If there are no matching items, there are no matching items...

The "either/or" setting would look at all 6 modifiers, but show results if the item shares ONE of the mods. This would give you a TON of results, but would be skewed toward the cheapest mod (or the most expensive mod if you flip it). There is no middle ground wiggle room here unless you scroll down and look at 1000s of results.

You COULD set the results to include multiple mods, and then either/or the rest, but this would result in the player requiring the knowledge to select the valuable mods themselves, which already exists in the trade system as we see it now. Copy/Paste would not be able to sort this way on its own.

Simply put, GGG has already implemented the best possible solution to the issues you bring up: a player can choose whatever mods they want to search, whatever item they want to search, preferential numbers, etc. Yea its a shame that there is a learning curve to utilizing this to its fullest

The reason 3rd party software exists that does things GGG cannot is because if GGG were to implement an "overlay" directly into the game, it would result in lag and slowed game play because it would have to use server resources to run that overlay. GGG COULD create their own overlay programs and have them on the website, but why waste time and money doing this when the community has already done this for them?