Seriously? CWDT + Immortal Call + Incr. duration cost 126 mana!

I would 100% agree whith their attemps to perfectly balance the game if it was a competitive game with high stakes but for PoE I think that a little bit of unbalanced stuff is fine and even needed.

Making CWDT harder to use to stop what could be called broken builds is interesting. But here, it also means that you have play the ultra meta build to be at least viable.

During this league, I started to play again on my lvl90 berserk in standard without knowing about those changes (I did not even test this league). I can dish out around 1M dps and have melee splash. And I die and die again of random OS (and from limit testing because I am a dumbass =D).

Then a friend told me about those changes and I understood that my IC+CWDT (lvl 8 ~1000hp) never casted. I run pride + flesh&stone + maim + enlighten lvl 3 which takes 46 + 41,6 % of my mana leaving me with 77 mana. I can now activate Dread banner and get to 0 mana =D For me this has always been a sweet optimisation ^^ (I literally levelled my enlighten yesterday and learnt about the changes 10 min later ='D)

My Dual Strike cost 23 mana without cost reduction. (Yes, I like DS. It's for the animation and the concept of Big Boi use Big Biceps to go Big BOOM. I even prefer heavy strike but I want to play dual wielding). I could make it go down to 0 mana with some craft and a jewel. And on another build I simply used a Soul Taker. But even with all this, I would not have enough mana to cast the 91 mana IC. And even worst, even if I get a Enlighten lvl 4, if I take a big hit after casting Blood rage, Berserk or a totem, I would not have enough mana for IC. That's pretty sad for a defence mechanism. And if we talk about Soul taker, you can attack even if you don't have mana, it doesn't mean it does not cost mana. So you would be at 0 mana H24 unable to cast anything.

I understand they wanted to tackle the "issue" of CWDT and that it is complex but I find the way they chose to do it quite destructive. And I think that choosing to destroy fun in a video GAME is a really poor job done.

The new changes are fine. With some slight adjustments to your tree and gem set ups, you can get your CWDT working again. Mana is an important stat. Buy some on your tree, craft some on your gear, or don't reserve every single lash shred of it.

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tcc7 wrote:

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raics wrote:

Yup, cwdt finally isn't a no-brainer thing you slap on every character, good thing in my book.

Right here is the problem with the players supporting the changes. Nobody ever forced you to use CWDT. You could always make the game harder all by yourself, by just setting yourself some limits.

But you seemingly were eyeing other chars, and going: grrr, they using a no-brainer thing again ;)

No, the problem is threads like these, screaming "you ruined the game" just because you're presented with a new problem to solve. Having 126 mana "free" 99% of the time to be able to cast your CWDT setup is not even a huge problem to solve, if you would call it a problem at all.

Hell, I don't necesaarily like the CWDT changes myself, but I dislike doomsaying hyperboling like this even more.

I understand it but it being feasible doesn't mean it is fun. Having to go ungry for mana with a heavy auto-attacker is displeasing. And seeing my defence 3 link setup costing 4 times the mana of my 6 link offence setup sounds crazy to me...

And I still think that such changes in PoE are really bad, really bad. I don't care that some player like to rush the season and be the fastest. I feel like PoE should simply be the game where you can be a demi-god mob slayer that kills the target the way you want at the cost of a decent theory craft and proper farm time. Balance is needed but not by destroying builds or nerfing already weak ones in the process =/ It feels like to punish those who make 5000 a month you will setup a flat 2500 fee. Those who won 1500 in the past won't like it.

And, yes, I feel that using every last shred of mana is mandatory to feel like a true heavy melee champ ! Forbidding players from doing it because no better nerf to the broken builds has been found just makes me... sad in fact. I really like having no or close to no mana (on melee champs).

But don't get me wrong, I understand that weakening the build to make it safer is possible. I just do not agree at all with the way it has been done.

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tcc7 wrote:
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raics wrote:
Yup, cwdt finally isn't a no-brainer thing you slap on every character, good thing in my book.

Right here is the problem with the players supporting the changes. Nobody ever forced you to use CWDT. You could always make the game harder all by yourself, by just setting yourself some limits.

But you seemingly were eyeing other chars, and going: grrr, they using a no-brainer thing again ;)

No, the problem is threads like these, screaming "you ruined the game" just because you're presented with a new problem to solve. Having 126 mana "free" 99% of the time to be able to cast your CWDT setup is not even a huge problem to solve, if you would call it a problem at all.

Hell, I don't necesaarily like the CWDT changes myself, but I dislike doomsaying hyperboling like this even more.

True and maybe I should have started another thread to give my opinion since I want it to be moderate.

What I really don't like in these changes is that some build just got deleted or became close to impossible. But for many other it just became more difficult/different.

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AzerathLeFléau wrote:

But don't get me wrong, I understand that weakening the build to make it safer is possible. I just do not agree at all with the way it has been done.

It's not only about nerfs, but it seems pretty clear to me that they are trying to shift PoE over to a more active playstyle. Well, it was, until they made flasks automatic.

But there are mechanics in the game, letting you reduce your attack's mana cost to 0 in a lot of cases. Having 126 mana left is not a huge problem, at least not a "game-breaking" problem.

I think a keystone saying "Skills casted on damage taken cost no mana, you can only have one skill linked to CWDT" or other ways of investing into it would solve some problems.

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Phrazz wrote:

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AzerathLeFléau wrote:
But don't get me wrong, I understand that weakening the build to make it safer is possible. I just do not agree at all with the way it has been done.

It's not only about nerfs, but it seems pretty clear to me that they are trying to shift PoE over to a more active playstyle. Well, it was, until they made flasks automatic.

But there are mechanics in the game, letting you reduce your attack's mana cost to 0 in a lot of cases. Having 126 mana left is not a huge problem, at least not a "game-breaking" problem.

I think a keystone saying "Skills casted on damage taken cost no mana, you can only have one skill linked to CWDT" or other ways of investing into it would solve some problems.

Less automatic... why would they want to ? Maybe to prepare us for PoE2, I don't know. But yes, why add automatic flask xD?

Your idea of a keystone is great. And if it would be too far away in the tree, you could still anoint it. Or even if they want to stop spellslinger maybe just flat out limit the number of spell linked to Cwdt.

White Knights on fire again !!!

The "VISION" is like, you now have 5 fingers supposedly free from flask piano, so time for skill piano.

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Phrazz wrote:

It's not only about nerfs, but it seems pretty clear to me that they are trying to shift PoE over to a more active playstyle. Well, it was, until they made flasks automatic.
But there are mechanics in the game, letting you reduce your attack's mana cost to 0 in a lot of cases. Having 126 mana left is not a huge problem, at least not a "game-breaking" problem.
I think a keystone saying "Skills casted on damage taken cost no mana, you can only have one skill linked to CWDT" or other ways of investing into it would solve some problems.

No, no, you missed the point.

If they just increased mana cost of CWDT, and left other things unchanged. That's not a big problem.

But they nerf flasks, nerf support gems, nerf everything. It's a super big problem that they also increased CWDT mana cost.

Poor slam skills, they have additional nerf compare to other melee skills. And they even don't want you to use CWDT+immortal call. No damage, no defense, slow motion attacking style.....Why does GGG so hate melee skills?