Why all the hate towards RNG?

Lately there's been a lot of hate towards RNG and how somehow it's a problem in PoE.

I have a simple question:

what's wrong with it?

When you buy a lottery ticket you don't get mad that you didn't win (most ppl).

When a single cloud blocks out the sun on mostly clear day: you might get a little annoyed for a few seconds but you move on and keep enjoying the sun (in this example PoE is the sun, RNG is the cloud).

It's random, that's what it's supposed to be. How can ppl get upset by something that "literally" they're not supposed to be able to control, or improve the odds of etc?

I can confirm that a ton of testing has been done on map RNG by the devs. It's been stated to me that maps are sustainable. This statement was supported by a large sample size as well.

On the other hand, if you take a small data set (ie, the handful of maps you find while leveling your first character), you may run into some issues. I've also known people who have started with a base of one map and never ran out.

For the record, I am in the first category. It took me around three weeks of heavy farming/mapping to get a sustainable base. But, now, I have over a page of 68+ maps. If you really want to speed up the process, just buy like 20 level 66 maps. They should cost around an alch each.

This game is not microscopic and it cannot be. It has to be focused on the macroscopic scale. The averages DO apply to you. It just takes longer if you are a single entity preforming the experiments than if you have 100 or 1000 people doing it. If I have 100 people running one map a day, they have the same data as one person running 100 maps a day.

You do hit on a good point though. The biggest, and hardest, problem to deal with is the uncertainty in map drops. In our testing, it was extremely high. This only means that, in order to balance out, you need to run more maps.

Everything large scale that has RNG is about averages.

"

Josephoenix wrote:

It's random, that's what it's supposed to be. How can ppl get upset by something that "literally" they're not supposed to be able to control, or improve the odds of etc?

Pure RNG isn't that fun for me personaly, but I see why it is in the game for those that love it.

RNG is fun. Delivery method of RNG is the issue.

I think we can all agree picking a random number in your head, typing it in a box on a screen and then watching a random number generator cycle through numbers until it hit your number would not be a fun engaging game that you would sit for hours at a time in front of, and spend your hard earned money buying different colored numbers or special effects for.


You're saying people are complaining about one thing, when they(we) are actually complaining about something completely different. Delivery method is the issue.

"

When you buy a lottery ticket you don't get mad that you didn't win (most ppl).

I don't play lottery so I don't get mad, since I know it's more likely to be struck by a lightning.

"

It's random, that's what it's supposed to be. How can ppl get upset by something that "literally" they're not supposed to be able to control, or improve the odds of etc?

It heavily depends how big are the chances?

Currently the droprates from 1-6 players and endgame maps in merciless are so terrible that it ends up in buying 2 million tickets for a win instead of 20.

ARPGs are a genre where you can acquire good items without much effort but need effort for perfect items.

MMO is a genre with eternal grinding for good equipment and much time investment to earn money.

Just see how D3 turned out.
The drops were terrible(MMO like) and AH killed the purpose of mf runs(Only p2w players are satisfied), so almost nobody was satisfied.

As CB player PoE feels far too much of an MMO now. If you play solo/small parties you have to invest around 5 times the time to find the same amount of equipment a party of 5 or 6 does.
Mobs became far more defensive compared to CB(more HP more resists bigger density), so killing speed in small groups/solo gets slowed down again-->10 times+ more time investment.
In CB even 3 links were enough to have an acceptable killspeed.


The Endgame in CB was easily accessable for everybody. On a nonrushed playthrough you always had the characterlevel around the area level and you found 1-2 maps min during merciless act2.
Now you are forced to relevel yourself at grindspots and to find maps you have to farm hours and hours.


This isn't how an ARPG should look like. ARPGS should have a fluent progression with some challenging fights and not being that grindy like MMO. CB did that right besides the challenging endgame started were only level 67 and 68 maps

The real challenge/perfect EQ grinding should be mid level and highlevel Endgame.
Normal Monsters should die like in a Hack'n Slash games but they should pose a threat.

If you create a game around crafting you should make crafting easily accessable and rolling at the same difficulty as it is now.

Currently every chance is low. The basic chance to find orbs is low(besides playermodifiers), receipes for crafting get nerfed(name match and chaos receipe) and roll chances are low too.
Wealth mobs get an additional "VERY"(I haven't seen one in CB anyway)

So now imagine you invest much time in something only to be kicked in the balls again because of really low chances.

The amount of players accepting this is really low and as you can see the playerbase in POE became quiet small within 3 months but it's only one of many reasons players quit.

Imo the devs should start to add content and players create their own ARPG mod with given content.
Especially long term and PVP/PK is something which can't be fixed with weekly patches with buffs nerfs and modifiers.

"

Hilbert wrote:

Spoiler

"

When you buy a lottery ticket you don't get mad that you didn't win (most ppl).

I don't play lottery so I don't get mad, since I know it's more likely to be struck by a lightning.

"

It's random, that's what it's supposed to be. How can ppl get upset by something that "literally" they're not supposed to be able to control, or improve the odds of etc?

It heavily depends how big are the chances?

Currently the droprates from 1-6 players and endgame maps in merciless are so terrible that it ends up in buying 2 million tickets for a win instead of 20.

ARPGs are a genre where you can acquire good items without much effort but need effort for perfect items.

MMO is a genre with eternal grinding for good equipment and much time investment to earn money.

Just see how D3 turned out.
The drops were terrible(MMO like) and AH killed the purpose of mf runs(Only p2w players are satisfied), so almost nobody was satisfied.

As CB player PoE feels far too much of an MMO now. If you play solo/small parties you have to invest around 5 times the time to find the same amount of equipment a party of 5 or 6 does.
Mobs became far more defensive compared to CB(more HP more resists bigger density), so killing speed in small groups/solo gets slowed down again-->10 times+ more time investment.
In CB even 3 links were enough to have an acceptable killspeed.


The Endgame in CB was easily accessable for everybody. On a nonrushed playthrough you always had the characterlevel around the area level and you found 1-2 maps min during merciless act2.
Now you are forced to relevel yourself at grindspots and to find maps you have to farm hours and hours.


This isn't how an ARPG should look like. ARPGS should have a fluent progression with some challenging fights and not being that grindy like MMO. CB did that right besides the challenging endgame started were only level 67 and 68 maps

The real challenge/perfect EQ grinding should be mid level and highlevel Endgame.
Normal Monsters should die like in a Hack'n Slash games but they should pose a threat.

If you create a game around crafting you should make crafting easily accessable and rolling at the same difficulty as it is now.

Currently every chance is low. The basic chance to find orbs is low(besides playermodifiers), receipes for crafting get nerfed(name match and chaos receipe) and roll chances are low too.
Wealth mobs get an additional "VERY"(I haven't seen one in CB anyway)

So now imagine you invest much time in something only to be kicked in the balls again because of really low chances.

The amount of players accepting this is really low and as you can see the playerbase in POE became quiet small within 3 months but it's only one of many reasons players quit.

Imo the devs should start to add content and players create their own ARPG mod with given content.
Especially long term and PVP/PK is something which can't be fixed with weekly patches with buffs nerfs and modifiers.

You're quite right in many places, but if PoE will do things purely the ARPG way, how will GGG keep the players playing? Their entire business model depends on this. If you get gear the ARPG style, advance the ARPG style, players might leave once the game is finished. They might return for new Acts, but how long does it take to finish an Act, 2-3 days at most?

GGG must keep people playing. They're a small team. They don't have the means to push out constant new content. So they chose the long grind with XP/character loss and full-on RNG as progression stops. Some people like it this way. I'm not among them :)