Remove the goddamn XP Penalty! (in standard)

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yamface wrote:

I'm sorry but it's hard to take people seriously when they would rather waste time writing a phd thesis on removing xp penalty than just improving at the game.

Am I weird in feeling that, if he made short posts instead, he would have been trashed just the same way, for opposite reasons? Basically, a damned if we do, damned if we don't scenario?

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lolozori wrote:

I play standard, Exalts and mirrors should rain from the sky ! Why not, this is standard after all also why do we need to grind anything ? It is slowing down our progress. Legacy Kaom should drop from killing A1 mobs and Sirus should die as soon as we buff our aura stacker, no need to fight him he ll be dead anyway.

Xp penalty should go also because it is standard so why put any difficulty anyway right? I think actually because it is standard we should just be able to create a level 100 chars with free legacy gear on each slot too.
:)

Exaggeration fallacy.

Stop such ridiculous arguments. It doesn't help anything.

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BabyChaos wrote:

I was under the assumption that every players initial goal is to complete the Atlas. Which means you need to build a character that can comfortably run T16. Any character that can run T16s can easily level to 100. That's why I believe that without a time constraint, it's not an achievement anymore.

It might depend on what you view as comfortably, but there is a vast difference between builds that die 1-3 times in 10 maps and 1-3 times in 1000 maps. You can easily run T16 and die once per map, but that will not get you anywhere near level 100.

Perhaps my examples of getting stuck early were poorly chosen, but this does apply to higher tier maps as well.

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BabyChaos wrote:

1) Level ups aren't really perceived as a "reward" are they? In pretty much any modern RPG / MMO whatsoever, you usually rush to max lvl just to get it out of the way and then the real game starts. I feel like other RPGs use their max lvl to mark the endpoint of the "tutorial".

This is further amplified by the tiny return in power you get from those final skill points. I don't need to get to 100, I just want to do it cause otherwise my character feels incomplete. But those final skill points are hardly rewarding.

It's like maxing out your main stats in Souls games. You hardly get any benefit from leveling your stats past 40/50 but getting all your main stats to 99 just feels good.

In other games, the game starts when you reach max level, but that does not mean that it has to work the same way in PoE. The completionism of getting all the available points despite low return is not the same notion but the opposite of it.

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BabyChaos wrote:

If we could get the option to "freeze" xp (no gain, no loss including gem xp) I'd be fine with the xp penalty. Cause then at least I could take a break from the mindless grind and go kill some bosses or do some simulacrums. Throw in a bunch of juiced maps. Just anything that mixes up the monotonous grind.

I actually agree with this. I am opposed to removing the death penalty entirely and letting people reach 100 in whatever way they like, but allowing people to play entertaining content in between hour long grind sessions does not seem to oppose the requirement of those grind sessions with consistent performance to actually level up.

There is an argument to be made about players just always freezing experience whenever they face a boss, but that can be counteracted. For one, such bosses could grant considerable amounts of exp to present an adequate reward for the risk of leaving exp gain and loss turned on. Also, the freeze would be locked the moment you enter an instance for the first time, so that you cannot get the boss into culling range, turn on your exp and reap the benefit without risk.

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BabyChaos wrote:

I actually wish there was an option to disable the xp bar at the bottom. It would help OCD players like me to be like "Yep, this is my max level, not gonna bother anymore". But constantly seeing that stupid little bar moving up and down... Yeah, I would love an option to turn it off ^^

I am not opposed to that either. From my point of view, a UI editor like in SWTOR is ideal, which allows moving, resizing, and hiding any UI elements, not just the exp bar. Especially in a game with a poor UI design like PoE, this would make a big difference.

Without bothering to quote the last part, I think I have already said most of what I have to say on the topic. I agree that a fully functional PoB (as in no months of waiting to have features supported after skills or uniques are added to the game) should be part of the game itself. Planning and optimising your character is a crucial part of the game because its scaling allows for huge opportunities around which the game had to be balanced eventually.

I also think that data on all skills, mods, uniques, and enemies should be available ingame. The game should not require leaving it to learn how it works in detail. The current tutorials are superficial at best.

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Angry_Casual wrote:

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yamface wrote:

I'm sorry but it's hard to take people seriously when they would rather waste time writing a phd thesis on removing xp penalty than just improving at the game.

Am I weird in feeling that, if he made short posts instead, he would have been trashed just the same way, for opposite reasons? Basically, a damned if we do, damned if we don't scenario?

I mean.. yes, but less so. It's obscenely unbelievable that someone would put this much effort into complaining about something when they could have spent that same time doing something about it. If this guy wrote a small whiny post about this at least it's logically consistent that he's into low effort everything...

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yamface wrote:

(...)If this guy wrote a small whiny post about this at least it's logically consistent that he's into low effort everything...

So, basically, you've judged the player without even looking at any point he has expressed. That's very constructive and helps a lot.

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Angry_Casual wrote:

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yamface wrote:

(...)If this guy wrote a small whiny post about this at least it's logically consistent that he's into low effort everything...

So, basically, you've judged the player without even looking at any point he has expressed. That's very constructive and helps a lot.

I've played this game since 2012. I've heard of every single argument ever made about this topic. Multiple times over :)

And at one point, I was even on your side. But then I got better at the game.

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yamface wrote:

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Angry_Casual wrote:

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yamface wrote:

(...)If this guy wrote a small whiny post about this at least it's logically consistent that he's into low effort everything...

So, basically, you've judged the player without even looking at any point he has expressed. That's very constructive and helps a lot.

I've played this game since 2012. I've heard of every single argument ever made about this topic. Multiple times over :)

And at one point, I was even on your side. But then I got better at the game.

That doesn't seem like a very strong argument why being rude and insulting is a constructive response?

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Turtledove wrote:

That doesn't seem like a very strong argument why being rude and insulting is a constructive response?

"sarcasm" is not meant to be "constructive"... you should know better than others that people tend to resort to sarcasm if someone beats a dead horse over and over... xD

yeah, I get it, my posts are long. I have a lot to say.

I actually realised that PoE is killing my machine. I can quite literally fry an egg on the casing while playing PoE. So,I guess that's why the game crashed.

I still appreciate posts like the ones from "The Psychpath". They actually tell why the penalty is good or at least necessary design. The more I think about it the more I believe, yeah, it's not that bad. But I still think there could be a more elegant way.

The good news is you took a build to 99 and not only that, all the way up (practically) to 100. What's also interesting is you didn't do the Breachstone/5way/Coward's Trial/ sort of rotation to get there either. Unless there's some principle I'm missing I would take your 90% XP right now and join the ~2 Chayula rotas it would take and knock out that 100.

The game kind of cheated you a bit. Unplayable, game chug lag death sort of thing. So if it were me I would just buy 2 Pure Chayula stones and join a Standard group of players in /global 820 and finish it off in a rota.

I even have a janky aurabot in Standard and she's at 66% XP to 98. I could join in for 2 Chayula rotations if it helps you get a group started. So I don't want to see you give up, you're actually really close to 100 despite 1 death. After that, then consider quitting the game for good.