God Bless These Lab Changes!!!

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Pizzarugi wrote:

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BrettLee wrote:

You aren't skeptical, you are needlessly negative and incorrect. It shouldn't take you an entire paragraph to accept that you were wrong.

Just because you can't accept that the game has big underlying issues with performance, mountains of garbage loot which we'd lose nothing if it got cut significantly, and unfair deaths buried under particle effects, it doesn't mean I'm wrong. Perhaps you should elaborate.

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BrettLee wrote:

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Pizzarugi wrote:

I'm still gonna be skeptical in that all enchants are weighted equally. Even if they were, it's still not something to be overly excited about. There are hundreds of helmet enchantments for Eternal Labyrinth alone (I stopped counting after reaching 150) and this change only triples how many you get per use of the machine. So instead of 1/300 chance at getting what you want, it's now 1/100.

Yeah, which is a really stupid way to look at it. There are usually 1-2 good enchants for most 'main skills', and a bunch of other enchants that boost support skills like berserk, blood rage, flesh offering, etc. and aura mana reservation enchants. I'd suspect most builds have somewhere between 4-6 good enchants.

The other aspect which you haven't factored in is that you can now see what enchants are available beforehand. So not only are you getting 3 helmet enchants, but you can also choose an appropriate base for whatever enchants are available.

1. That assumes most people are going to be content with just accepting the "lesser" enchantment for their build rather than the one they actually want. That's something you deal with, because it's the only thing that was available which remotely benefits you and you can't be bothered to keep trying, or you ran out of offerings.

2. I did factor in the other aspect, but you assume that everyone is a trader or crafter and actually cares about this. Why would I care about Y enchant being on the list which would not improve my build any when I'm looking for X enchant? Assuming I do exactly as you suggest and put a desired enchant on a white base, now what? Sell it off for less than 10c? Surely I could've done something better with my time that would've given me more currency?

or you can think of it like this.

If I SSF'd Reduced stromcall duration and it took my 200 hits at the font to achieve it back in betrayal (it didn't I got really lucky but for the sake of argument lets say I didn't)

200 enchant rolls/ offering of the godess + "twice enchanted" = 100 runs... with dark shrines which are not 100% we can assume as few as lets call it 70 full uber lab clears.

with the new system you reduce this number by a factor of 3 and suddenly its a very manageable 23ish runs to hit the enchant you NEED

That is astronomical, your attempted deception is unethical in my eyes

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Fauxxx_NL wrote:

Spoiler

or you can think of it like this.

If I SSF'd Reduced stromcall duration and it took my 200 hits at the font to achieve it back in betrayal (it didn't I got really lucky but for the sake of argument lets say I didn't)

200 enchant rolls/ offering of the godess + "twice enchanted" = 100 runs... with dark shrines which are not 100% we can assume as few as lets call it 70 full uber lab clears.

with the new system you reduce this number by a factor of 3 and suddenly its a very manageable 23ish runs to hit the enchant you NEED

That is astronomical, your attempted deception is unethical in my eyes

I'm actually on @Pizzarugi's side as I ran a couple hundred Uber "Lab" (before Harvest was introduced) + a dozen or so Uber Uber "Lab" runs and I still didn't hit any enchant for my desired skill (Smite in this instance) ON MY SPECIFIC HELMET. It shouldn't take a bazillion tries at solely RNG mercy to get your desired outcome without some redundancies to tackle all the added clutter each league - new skills get new enchants and the pool ALWAYS increases...

I also find running "Lab" boring so I only do it for finishing that helmet for my main character. I also don't speed run, as "Labyrinth" is actually one of the few pieces of content deserving of my time, as it changes pace APPROPRIATELY and makes PoE "different" even for casual n00b hoarders as myself...

The only interesting aspect at the 3 choice we're presented is the interaction with the Uber Uber "Lab", where if they implement it as slot machine style, it will actually provide a satisfying number of attempts per run - aka 3 choices for every previous enchant attempt, so you could try >18 outcomes per run.

If they didn't addressed that, simple Offerings will get a massive boost in power - warranted IMHO - but their upgraded via Harvest counterparts - aka Gifts - will be less enticing to run...

Regardless, with a grand total of >1K possible enchantments for helmets, trying to get the desired outcome with >20 attempts per run seems finally encouraging to get off meta skill enchants on off meta items, yet still a huge PITA in SSF scenarios...

The improvement is real, and will provide the incentive to try to actually get an enchant for a specific skill on a specific item, if you can stomach the content.

Everyone else might be satisfied with settling for a lesser enchant for an aura/support skill instead of the main/secondary one, but that was always the letdown of the "Labyrinth" - decent content that deserves to be played and properly appreciated for it's "breath of fresh air", but you always do a couple runs then stop either settling, either giving up without hitting a proper outcome or even get lucky in a rare instance and actually hit the skill with an enchant or even the desired one (unlikely, but still possible).

This of course is entirely different if we talk about focusing on trade, where you can actually manage to have more return depending on the base/unique and the enchant hit...

No Challenge completion and a vivid display of a lack of understanding of the raw numeric reality of the changes.

Stated as simply as possible, the Enchantment changes are literally a 66% less modifier to the number of tries required to hit a desirable enchant no matter how you try to slice it.

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Fauxxx_NL wrote:

No Challenge completion and a vivid display of a lack of understanding of the raw numeric reality of the changes.

Stated as simply as possible, the Enchantment changes are literally a 66% less modifier to the number of tries required to hit a desirable enchant no matter how you try to slice it.

And how much less if I'm interested in more than 1 enchant?
Just being able to see what kind of enchant i will get before slam is a massive buff to how fast i can get usable enchant.


Infernal blow enchant on random helmet? meh
But being able to get infernal blow on abyssus - helmet i normally don't use is big.


There are many build enabling enchants but most of them needs a correct base / unique to be worth time and currency invested.

"no matter how you try to slice it"

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Fauxxx_NL wrote:

Spoiler

No Challenge completion and a vivid display of a lack of understanding of the raw numeric reality of the changes.

Stated as simply as possible, the Enchantment changes are literally a 66% less modifier to the number of tries required to hit a desirable enchant no matter how you try to slice it.

Some of us don't beta test leagues for "fun". I play mainly Standard AND I'M DAMN PROUD OF IT.

The reality of changes still hinges on unmitigated RNG "because reasons", so IDEALLY that should translate into a 66% less modifier to the number of tries.

Sadly, there is no "entropy" regarding enchantment selection so if your RNG fails, your as prone to dismiss odds stacking against you as before...

Much change, much "wow"...