God Bless These Lab Changes!!!

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Pizzarugi wrote:

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innervation wrote:

I think people are underestimating how good this change is - mostly underestimating the 'see before you commit' part.

I'll wait and see on that. The announcement video might give one the impression you're guaranteed to get 3 helmet enchantments to pick from, but for all we know, those enchantments are all random. One run may have 2 helmet enchantments, another is only 1.

I know that you do your best to be negative, but he clearly says "..in the Eternal Labyrinth you are now offered three different helmet enchantments.."

At the very least I might attempt to farm a helmet enchant for any skill I use, and it doesn't have to be my main skill which increases the odds. If I decide it still isn't worth it then I won't do it again.

The lab emperor jewels from the chests are also a bit of a bonus to repeat runs for.

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kaepae wrote:

The lab emperor jewels from the chests are also a bit of a bonus to repeat runs for.

The schadenfreude surrounding this change is fun too.

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BrettLee wrote:

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Pizzarugi wrote:

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innervation wrote:

I think people are underestimating how good this change is - mostly underestimating the 'see before you commit' part.

I'll wait and see on that. The announcement video might give one the impression you're guaranteed to get 3 helmet enchantments to pick from, but for all we know, those enchantments are all random. One run may have 2 helmet enchantments, another is only 1.

I know that you do your best to be negative, but he clearly says "..in the Eternal Labyrinth you are now offered three different helmet enchantments.."

That implies I'm always negative, which I'm not. I was praising the game back during Metamorph league, because GGG finally did something about the Atlas and how it's impossible to sustain maps without trading. It was a problem I had for years. I'm still happy for these changes, I can't begin to explain how good it feels to reach T14+ maps instead of being stuck in yellows because of bad sustain and quitting early once everything becomes too easy to kill.

I prefer "skeptical", not my fault that it's negative when bad shit keeps happening to the game over the years like it devolving into speed-freak metas along with leagues and balance passes that perpetuate it. That doesn't cover how much GGG is also trying to bury other problems underneath bright particle effects and MTX while stability continues to decay. I don't think I need to mention how terrible loot quality is when the game slows down as it drops 100 bits of garbage at your feet which your loot filter will hide 99% of, but I will anyway.

I went to rewatch the announcement now that it's on youtube. I stand corrected on the enchantments part. I'm still gonna be skeptical in that all enchants are weighted equally. Even if they were, it's still not something to be overly excited about. There are hundreds of helmet enchantments for Eternal Labyrinth alone (I stopped counting after reaching 150) and this change only triples how many you get per use of the machine. So instead of 1/300 chance at getting what you want, it's now 1/100.

And you expect me to sound positive about this? I still have no reason to grind my ass off in the labyrinth trying to get one enchantment I need. The only time I'd be bothered to try is if I'm doing labyrinth runs for challenge completion.

I'm Calling it now...
Reduced Storm Call Duration WILL BE Huge early into the league on a proper base.

I cant wait.
I love Lab'n.

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Speedjunkie wrote:

we'll see how this turns out. especially regarding the helm-enchants: now you got a chance of appr. 1/500. even if we get a 3/500 in the future, this won't change much

This is a fair point, but you aren't valuing the fact that there is a partial "Roll Blocking" happening intrinsically.

It will be particularly interesting to see if GGG has coded these enchant pools to not allow for double dipping I.E. you can only roll one enchant for one active skill per charge or the font... so maybe its not going to be possible to get lets say reduced EQ duration AND increased EQ damage from one pool of 3.

IF... this winds up being the case then your assessment will be entirely undervaluing this factor. however we have no way of knowing.

Purely Speculatory... but if there winds up being some form of active skill blocking, it will make landing something like reduced Storm Call Duration slightly less likely to achieve, but it will make things like One additional Ancestor from General's Cry Much more easy to hit (storm call has like 4 or 5 options general's cry has only 2 options.)

You know I changed my mind and you guys are right. These changes don't change anything and no one should bother with the lab.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

Spoiler

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BrettLee wrote:

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Pizzarugi wrote:

I'll wait and see on that. The announcement video might give one the impression you're guaranteed to get 3 helmet enchantments to pick from, but for all we know, those enchantments are all random. One run may have 2 helmet enchantments, another is only 1.

I know that you do your best to be negative, but he clearly says "..in the Eternal Labyrinth you are now offered three different helmet enchantments.."

I prefer "skeptical", not my fault that it's negative when bad shit keeps happening to the game over the years like it devolving into speed-freak metas along with leagues and balance passes that perpetuate it. That doesn't cover how much GGG is also trying to bury other problems underneath bright particle effects and MTX while stability continues to decay. I don't think I need to mention how terrible loot quality is when the game slows down as it drops 100 bits of garbage at your feet which your loot filter will hide 99% of, but I will anyway.

You aren't skeptical, you are needlessly negative and incorrect. It shouldn't take you an entire paragraph to accept that you were wrong.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

I'm still gonna be skeptical in that all enchants are weighted equally. Even if they were, it's still not something to be overly excited about. There are hundreds of helmet enchantments for Eternal Labyrinth alone (I stopped counting after reaching 150) and this change only triples how many you get per use of the machine. So instead of 1/300 chance at getting what you want, it's now 1/100.

Yeah, which is a really stupid way to look at it. There are usually 1-2 good enchants for most 'main skills', and a bunch of other enchants that boost support skills like berserk, blood rage, flesh offering, etc. and aura mana reservation enchants. I'd suspect most builds have somewhere between 4-6 good enchants.

The other aspect which you haven't factored in is that you can now see what enchants are available beforehand. So not only are you getting 3 helmet enchants, but you can also choose an appropriate base for whatever enchants are available.

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BrettLee wrote:

You aren't skeptical, you are needlessly negative and incorrect. It shouldn't take you an entire paragraph to accept that you were wrong.

Just because you can't accept that the game has big underlying issues with performance, mountains of garbage loot which we'd lose nothing if it got cut significantly, and unfair deaths buried under particle effects, it doesn't mean I'm wrong. Perhaps you should elaborate.

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BrettLee wrote:

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Pizzarugi wrote:

I'm still gonna be skeptical in that all enchants are weighted equally. Even if they were, it's still not something to be overly excited about. There are hundreds of helmet enchantments for Eternal Labyrinth alone (I stopped counting after reaching 150) and this change only triples how many you get per use of the machine. So instead of 1/300 chance at getting what you want, it's now 1/100.

Yeah, which is a really stupid way to look at it. There are usually 1-2 good enchants for most 'main skills', and a bunch of other enchants that boost support skills like berserk, blood rage, flesh offering, etc. and aura mana reservation enchants. I'd suspect most builds have somewhere between 4-6 good enchants.

The other aspect which you haven't factored in is that you can now see what enchants are available beforehand. So not only are you getting 3 helmet enchants, but you can also choose an appropriate base for whatever enchants are available.

1. That assumes most people are going to be content with just accepting the "lesser" enchantment for their build rather than the one they actually want. That's something you deal with, because it's the only thing that was available which remotely benefits you and you can't be bothered to keep trying, or you ran out of offerings.

2. I did factor in the other aspect, but you assume that everyone is a trader or crafter and actually cares about this. Why would I care about Y enchant being on the list which would not improve my build any when I'm looking for X enchant? Assuming I do exactly as you suggest and put a desired enchant on a white base, now what? Sell it off for less than 10c? Surely I could've done something better with my time that would've given me more currency?