Ethereal Knives

I've just deleted my first attempt at an EK-maining witch. She was level 10. I used dual strike with daggers as her single-target cleaner (right click) and EK as her main skill (left click).

I rushed for the mana per kill passives because I KNEW that +25 mana per kill would make the spell free.

And it did.

Unfortunately, EK hit like a feather against a rather apathetic brick wall.

My next attempt will forego the early mana issues and just bump spell damage -- conveniently very close to the Witch's starting position.

Some feedback so far, based on a raw test with no twinked items or high level play -- this is a level 4 skill and low level testing is of some value.

--This skill is not as far from done as people make out. The game was in positioning so that you'd get as many targets per throw as possible. That sort of strategic play compels me at times. I could down groups of mobs pretty quickly before hitting the prison, where I was stopped cold not by Chatters, but by a regenerating necromancer boss. That'd stop quite a few people, but I can always find a way to deal with them. Not so with the EK witch. That said, he was a toughass boss for anyone and if I'd switched skills, I could have killed him. My test, however, is EK. Not other skills. BUT other than him, EK was doing fairly well.

Yes, the animation is way too slow at both ends. I've yet to test it with very large cast speed increases, but this is a low level test, assuming you've just found the skill and want to use it. It was slow but not intolerable. You wouldn't choose it over any other spell, that's for sure.

Kuduku was one of those rare finds: once I'd swept around him and killed the mobs in my way, I stood JUST within range to throw the knives at him. This caused him to cast shock novas rather than spark. This made him pretty easy, oddly enough.

Things I'd suggest to make this skill viable:

1. Make the damage chaos rather than physical. If you're going to call them 'Ethereal Knives', then it makes no sense to have them be physical damage -- given that Ethereal literally means 'intangible'. I love that you guys made a physical damage spell, but Ethereal Knives shouldn't be. Make it chaos damage instead of physical and suddenly it's seriously 'ethereal'. It bypasses shields, for a start. (Thanks to Thronde for this suggestion.)

2. If that is not happening, change the skill name and allow the knives to apply bleeding. One of the biggest threats when it comes to thrown, sharp projectiles would have to be the wounds rather than the chance of immediate death. When I was using it, EK would deal just enough damage to require two or three throws to kill most mobs. Throw in bleeding and that will be reduced to one or two, which I think is much more acceptable at low level.

And that's it really. The slow cast time didn't really bother me. I was able to kite with EK. The cost is a bit high (15 mana at level 3) but not impossible to manage.

All it needs is a nudge or two. It'll never be an uber skill but I don't think it's meant to be. As long as it's viable as a main damage source IF a person is willing to build for it. I think that's okay.

Does pierce work with EK? As in will EK now hit the same target more then once assuming they pierced through another target first or will the targets still be limited to 1 hit per cast?

Yet to test it with a pierce support gem.

Okay, I have to admit, that if I equip two wands for the spell buffs, EK becomes slightly less useless.

This is then resigning myself to believing it IS a spell, therefore IS magical, therefore shouldn't really be physical damage.

...Still not sure how I feel about that.

So is there anyway to increase the distance or arc width currently in game by something like increased projectile speed, skill duration or AoE radius?

I realise my longer posts don't always encourage a direct answer from GGG, so I'm going to keep this much shorter than usual, and more blunt.

What exactly is this skill supposed to be? When it was conceived, how was it meant to be used? Implicitly, am I being stupid in trying to find a way to make it my main damage source from level 4 onwards?

Cheers.

I tend to agree with most of the observations. It's hard to determine utility of spell because:
- very short range
- doesn't scale well with passives

If the spell had a bonus on chance to stun/stun duration, it could be used as crowd control/escape mechanism for ranged/spell classes that have mobs close too quickly. BUT, the cast time it too long for it to be effective even in this sense. Speed up the cast time and it can be an 'oh shit' skill.

If anything, I would change this gem from dex based to int based to give pure int specs a physical damage spell to help deal with elemental reflect mobs. Narrow the arc and give it more range and increased chance to stun.

Speaking of which, I have hardly seen either ele reflect or phys reflect mob types lately... Were they removed?

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Zarondd wrote:

So is there anyway to increase the distance or arc width currently in game by something like increased projectile speed, skill duration or AoE radius?

You can increase the distance, but not the arc (as far as I know). With my Faster Projectiles support gem, Ethereal Knives can now reach the bottom and top edges of the screen easily, and reaches about 2/3rds of the way to the right and left. I'd definitely say some sort of projectile speed boost is a must for using this spell.

And I am actually using this spell quite successfully so far @level 55 and starting to make my way into chaos. I currently have it linked to Added Cold Damage and Faster Projectiles. I'm hoping to replace Added Cold Damage with Added Chaos Damage once I get it leveled sufficiently.

Another thing worth noting is that the Hatred aura gem works on this spell, providing a noticeable cold damage boost.

While I won't go as far as saying the skill is perfect as it is, I find its damage output to be quite reasonable. I'll try to go into more depth later.

Edit: If Hatred works, then so would Wrath, I presume. For whatever reason I didn't think this would be the case. I shall have to try it, perhaps when I've got better mana management.

I just took my Knife witch into Act 2 last night. Now that EK is level 4 and she has all her nearby spell buffs, and I've shoved a damage-add support in there, she's doing okay. Ish. I took out both of Merveil's Daughters and Mom herself with relative ease. Ran out of mana a lot, because I'm currently relying on the mana per kill nodes. Will probably go east on the skilldrasil and start just bumping mana straight.

I still love how tactical this skill forces me to be. I herd mobs until that one throw counts. There is an illusion of precision in the Ethereal Knives build. Given the mana cost, you really don't want to waste any.

I keep finding interesting benefits to this skill/build that still don't quite make it lucrative.

For example, there ARE many elemental-resist mobs around. Many. And EK eats them alive, quicker than many 'better' elemental spells ever could.

Perhaps I only had to get past the early level doldrums. I'm not sure. We'll see how it continues now that I'm moving more towards gear and skills tailored towards supporting one skill...

No, Hatred works because it gives you a phys->cold conversion and EK does physical damage. Anger and Wrath add flat damage to Attaks (and EK is a spell).

I've had moderate success with a Ranger using EK, focusing on crit and projectile damage for my damage boosts, with Hatred, Added Fire, and Faster Proj to increase the damage via non-passives.

EK would feel much more fluid if the cast time went down a bit (going from 1s to 0.84s with frenzy charges is a huge relief) and the damage went down to keep the same relative strength. Right now it feels far to slow compared to normal weapon swinging animations and movement speed.