And so GGG stands their ground with the will of the players still intact.

"

crunkatog wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

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RaZeR1976 wrote:

The problem with harvest is TFT

It is a problem. Chris even said so himself in the manifesto:

"

Chris wrote:

Even the crafts we made quite rare felt pretty common when the entire community was pooling them together

I do agree that Harvest was a little bit OP even without TFT. But TFT made that little bit of OP, very OP. You'll never get your typical "market manipulator" (like I_NO over there) to ever agree to TFT (or any corner of trading) being a problem or being OP. TFT was/is in practice a MORE multiplier when it comes to Harvest and its power.

TFT should've been a PART of the Harvest nerfs, but GGG were too afraid to do so. Because if they made restrictions to how an item is being traded (account bound, craft bound or anything), the backlash would be WAY bigger than the response to their current Harvest nerfs.

The power of collective action. No problem, be it Nature or a fetters of our own making, is too large to tackle together.

Trade is always 100x easier to get what you're after. I probably have 500ex inapplicable stuff in stash I could sell yet wear crap because I cant sell inapplicable for applicable. Anyway pooling of resources is what this game is about not SSF so they'll never make BoA items. Remember how long they resisted us for SSF leagues?

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Exile009 wrote:

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

D2R will smash the fuck out of whatever bloated league launch PoE churns out at the same time.

In fact, the PoE playerbase is so fractional to Diablo, it barely even matters. When D2R comes out we will be discussing it in terms of millions, not peak couple hundred thousand. It's laughable.

Quoted for posterity. We shall see when the time comes just how accurate our resident Blizzard fanboi's (and that's based on more than just this one quote, in case anyone here isn't familiar with you) prediction is. I hope you don't have any excuses ready for if things don't go as you say. ;)

Also, don't crow too early. 'The time' in this case is not launch day, but some time after. Even I won't bother doubting Blizzards' prodigious marketing talent.

Well just say what you are thinking about D2R.

I don't need excuses because I have zero skin in the game. Again I never said PoE will die, I said D2R will dwarf it. If you think differently fine. I know this will be shocking to you, but players are perfectly capable of playing multiple games. I will be interested to see what all the PoE streamers choose as their content. I have my suspicions that it wont be somehting GGG is looking forward to. Maybe GGG will be throwing money around for some sponsored streams.

Also what is some time after in your world? Because PoE every launch suffers massive player drops in terms of weeks. What I'm saying is the numbers will be fractional compared to Diablo in similar timeframes.

Plus Blizzard hasn't officially commented (to my knowledge) on the specifics of the live service features that will accompany D2R as it moves forward.

If you want to doubt and poo poo Diablo 2, go ahead. I want no part of that ship you are sailing on. D2R will be a MASSIVE multiplatform release, with incredible marketing, and social media support, not to mention Twitch and other streaming platforms.

If GGG was afraid of Cyberpunk, well...I hope their supply of toilet paper is stocked up.

EDIT: Side note, I know this is the PoE forums, when did it become an issue, or being a "Fanboi", to like Diablo 2? Jesus...

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

I know this will be shocking to you, but players are perfectly capable of playing multiple games.

Lol, you certainly have a prodigious capacity for strawmanning. Don't recall ever suggesting that people can't play multiple games, especially since I myself play multiple games (indeed even multiple genres of games). But go on, keep thinking that everyone who doesn't share your unflagging belief in Blizzard does so only cos PoE is their be all and end all. It's just all the more amusing. :)

And 'I know this will be shocking to you', but we aren't all as confident of the things we "know" either. Some of us are a mite more humble in our projections.

I don't know how well D2R or even D4 will do. Which just makes your supreme confidence in them and their apparently assured success curios. Fanboyish even.

"

Exile009 wrote:

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

I know this will be shocking to you, but players are perfectly capable of playing multiple games.

Lol, you certainly have a prodigious capacity for strawmanning. Don't recall ever suggesting that people can't play multiple games, especially since I myself play multiple games (indeed even multiple genres of games). But go on, keep thinking that everyone who doesn't share your unflagging belief in Blizzard does so only cos PoE is their be all and end all. It's just all the more amusing. :)

And 'I know this will be shocking to you', but we aren't all as confident of the things we "know" either. Some of us are a mite more humble in our projections.

I don't know how well D2R or even D4 will do. Which just makes your supreme confidence in them and their apparently assured success curios. Fanboyish even.

Oh cmon. I don't have some supernatural ability to actually predict the future. I don't know how D2R or D4 or PoE2 will actually do.

All we have are predictions and opinions.

So what's the TLDR here then? I'm confident D2R will do well. You apparently not so much. Ok, sure, is that groundbreaking or a shocking hot take either way? No, I don't think so.

What do I base my confidence on? Diablo 2 as a base for one. Blizzard's development strategy with the remake (the 70/30 concept). I follow Vicarious Visions (for my time in Destiny), who are doing the remake, and they are an outstanding studio. Blizzard's marketing machine, and core Diablo fans. The hype, turnout, sales, streams, player counts, concurrent players, content creation, will be, imo, crazy big. These are all industry measures I think D2R will excel in.

I'd be interested in where you think D2R will fail or fall short. Or what are you basing your pessimism on?

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I'd be interested in where you think D2R will fail or fall short. Or what are you basing your pessimism on?

As it's the same game we all knew and love(d), it will fall short on the same area where it fell short last time I played it: End game, which is WAY more relevant in today's market than it was when D2 first came out.

It's the same game, I seriously can't see how the new skin should keep interest longer than the old skin did. But hey, I'm old - and do not play games for their graphics - and when we take away graphics, there's nothing new in D2R. Might be my own, personal bias right there.

D4, on the other hand, will probably offer way more competition, as it seems to focus on the area(s) where PoE falls short; MMO elements and multiplayer. Not my cup of tea, but in today's market, it's the smart move.

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I_NO wrote:

Harvest still OP yep

Still the #1 ARPG in the market yep

People going to D2R thinking it's like some godsend next generation shit when it's a 1 month game before you get bored HAHAHAHA

People threatening going I VOTE WITH MUH WALLET then write a collage essay of why harvest shouldn't be nerfed and go I'm not playing the next league!

A flawless era of perfection!

Im going to Outlanders and Destiny 2 , jeez i guess i missed the memo.

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Phrazz wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I'd be interested in where you think D2R will fail or fall short. Or what are you basing your pessimism on?

As it's the same game we all knew and love(d), it will fall short on the same area where it fell short last time I played it: End game, which is WAY more relevant in today's market than it was when D2 first came out.

It's the same game, I seriously can't see how the new skin should keep interest longer than the old skin did. But hey, I'm old - and do not play games for their graphics - and when we take away graphics, there's nothing new in D2R. Might be my own, personal bias right there.

D4, on the other hand, will probably offer way more competition, as it seems to focus on the area(s) where PoE falls short; MMO elements and multiplayer. Not my cup of tea, but in today's market, it's the smart move.

Interesting as I think D2's endgame, even as dated as it is, is superior to PoE's.

For one the loot chase is far better. Boss runs for drops are, imo, way better than the speed currency farm we see in maps. PoE's loot is in a really really bad place. Like horrific.

Also PvP, rune hunting, and playing multiple characters (especially with shared stash) are just more appealing.

I know people have a differing opinion, but it's so weird to literally see weakness where other see strengths. D2 had/has great replayability, but perhaps you are correct that a different generation see it differently.

Personally PoE has exhausted me because of the bloat. I just cannot imagine playing next league, doing all the acts, unlocking the atlas, region passives, Maven, watchstones, delve, incursions, betrayal, crafting, and more. It just too fucking much, way too much.

Need a break for sure. I dont know how many leagues I will take off, but the bloat, along with the GGG balancing and elite focus has really turned me off.

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Noble_Seiken wrote:

their*

sorry

collage essay

sorry too

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

Interesting as I think D2's endgame, even as dated as it is, is superior to PoE's.

For one the loot chase is far better. Boss runs for drops are, imo, way better than the speed currency farm we see in maps. PoE's loot is in a really really bad place. Like horrific.

Also PvP, rune hunting, and playing multiple characters (especially with shared stash) are just more appealing.

Superior huh? More like simple, shallow. Not surprised to hear this from you, given your reaction to any PoE league that involves anything beyond just another monster closet. There's nothing special about any of that btw. Grim Dawn already has it. Last Epoch. Even Wolcen. PoE's deep endgame systems are part of what set it apart. Apart from Blizzard's marketing, there's nothing it has that PoE's other competitors - who've so far failed to dislodge it - don't already have. Indeed the main thrust of your belief in the game comes from an enduring trust in the Blizzard fanbases' loyalty, despite recent betrayals, as well as the nigh brainwashing level of power of their marketing machine.

Tbh even if it does succeed, if those are the reasons why, then personally I'd just write it off as yet another testament to the sad state of modern gaming, where marketing and brand value mean more than having an actually interesting game (and that means it'd sit alongside other embarrassments, such as the continued success of the FIFA games). If you're content with celebrating the triumph of Blizzard achieving EA levels of gaming greatness, so be it.

For now I live in hope that the ARPG playerbase is better than that. That they won't stoop to the levels of the sports game masochists. Of course there's the possibility that D4 will actually be a great game, but the majority of your confidence seems to stem more from trust in the worst elements of the modern gaming industry winning out, so I hope for all our sakes that you're wrong.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Personally PoE has exhausted me because of the bloat. I just cannot imagine playing next league, doing all the acts, unlocking the atlas, region passives, Maven, watchstones, delve, incursions, betrayal, crafting, and more. It just too fucking much, way too much.

Need a break for sure. I dont know how many leagues I will take off, but the bloat, along with the GGG balancing and elite focus has really turned me off.

You've been complaining about this game's bloat for leagues now, and yet here you are with 29 challenges in the latest league again under your belt. Ironic, especially considering you're arguing with someone who didn't even bother with the league this time. And yet look which of us is being dismissive of the game, and which is still holding it up. I suppose I should expect to see you playing the next patch again then, even while continuing to still wax on about how much the game is a slog for you. So see you at 36 in Ultimatum then? ;) :p

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I know people have a differing opinion, but it's so weird to literally see weakness where other see strengths. D2 had/has great replayability, but perhaps you are correct that a different generation see it differently.

It is weird, indeed. To you, D2's endgame is superior to PoE. To me, D2's endgame is non-existent. Sure, you can repeat the same bosses as you did in the story mode over and over again and call it an endgame (excluding Uber Baal here), but it's all about loot. No non-gear character progression, no content progression and way more repetitive than PoE's endgame.

I do however, agree with your "bloat" statement, and that PoE is pushing a very dangerous line here. But I'll take "too much" content over "no content" any day of the week.

I loved Diablo - even more than I've loved PoE over the years. But I've played it to death - and D2R offers NO additional content, only fresh paint. And as I don't really care about paint, I see no reason(s) to play D2R over Median XL or Path of Diablo. But hey, as you all know; I'm weird.