Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

I hate the harvest nerf although I do not use harvest crafts myself. I tired only once to craft something but I don't like it since it eats lots of ex in the proces while re-rolling stuff.

I enjoy the possiblity of finding good craft and selling them to others who like making goodlike gear. I don't see the need of making mirror tier item myslef but like the options for others to do so. With currency I madeselling harvest crafts to my guild mates I empower my builds with high mid tear gear and have fun this way. Now it will all be gone.

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Black_Baobab wrote:

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Kairuto2020 wrote:

Let's let them implement what is intended first and we will see if it really hurt the whole game play. What if few weeks into next league, you see many top tier gear easily and everyone will be forgeting this whole episode. If it turn out really bad, GGG can always re-tweak again the following league. It is a free game after all and we already know GGG is using all of this year to fine tune the mechanic for POE2. Lets give them a chance for it to prove their tweak. One can always skip the league if it is that bad. Don't murder them on just 1 adjustment when they have already provided 8 years of countless new league mechanic and gaming enjoyment.

A lot of people are reacting because, if you look at a lot of unhappy players here, the manifesto feels bad for multiple reason. I'll only note two :
- It is surprisingly out of touch (slamming is fun and the way to craft ??)
- It wants to kill determinism and go back to gamble. I hate gamble, many people hate gamble. With harvest, we had a way to make progress while crafting that suits our liking and style of play. With the change, we'll revert back to the old gamble system that feels so bad for a lot of people (In my case, I'll just revert to buying things). But now, I'll have the bitter taste that it WAS fun. I would prefer it was just not implemented and stay in my blissful ignorance.

I still love the game, still love the gameplay, and I will still be around. But reminding me that the trade and the crafting system is bad AND mandatory is not fun at all, especially now that we know that it can be better...

Determinism is not the issue. The issue is the value of determinism. What they fail to admit is they made a mistake by under-valuing determinism. Example Jeweller to make 6 sockets. You can RNG it or you can use crafting bench at a cost of 300 Jeweller. Or Fusing - you can RNG it for 6 linked or you can spend 1500 Fusing to instant 6linked it. Everything has a cost attached for determinism. Harvest is under-valuing them.

If you go by slamming 1 ex to add a random mod, then Harvest Aug specific type mod should cost a lot more than 1 ex to do it. It should probably be 5ex or 10ex per craft. GGG knows this but if they take this route, the casual players will still complain and say GGG is catering to the super rich who only they can afford to use Harvest. This is where the dilemma lies.

ppl are so easy to anger nowdays.... cmon calm down:PPP
AND PLZ dont nerf harvest to much

I can understand, that this league GGG implemented so big buff to end-game content, that raised farming to the much higher level. Farm 2-5 ex for casual player? Easy, just get cheap clear mapping build (ED for example or obliteration explosive or any other cheap explosive build), go to Valod\Glennach\Vastir, spend like 15 c per map and get at least 40c in a return from strongboxes, legions or harbringers. Almost no investment, no risks, good for casual player. From other side, Harvest of other players will give plenty of good and cheap items on the market. So in the end, even casual player with 2-8 hours in a week can get ok build, which will give fun without min-maxing. I can understand that by this logic, anybody can receive a lot of currency, which they are not using in reality and GGG want to force using currency instead of trading.

The problem is, that using currency only profitable in a very rare occasions (alt\aug slam to get tailwind, on cluster and common jewels, but not other big options), in other way it is useless. Using exalt on item, which will cost more than exalt only if specific roll will appear is useless. If you have 80c item (compared to 100:1 rate) and trying to do exalt on it, the price should raise to 1.8 exalt anyway and if the roll is not ok (it will not in general be ok at all), then price will raise to 2.8, 3.8 and later with lucky augs. So cheap item is not worth exalting at all. If we are talking about expensive items or at least even middle tier (10ex for base) we receive the same situation. With exalt we raise price by default to 11ex and if you brick item by that, you lost 11ex at least. If you break item, then you need buy base again. With 10 bricks you lost 110ex, which affect price on market for anything valuable. Nobody will ever do exalt slam and I am not saying anything for items like 80ex each. You can only buy, but not fix the item.

GGG go to the reddit to see how people are crafting. They buy base, which is RNG drop or use essences or fossils craft and then fix item by Harvesting. They are not using Harvest for the full flow. Also, they are spending not one but a couple of Harvests to make good item (100ex+ on current trade). The process is long and not so determenistic. You know what you should use to get the item, but you don't have feeling that you will do it fast enough. It is same with fossils. With 4craft fossil you have more chances to get what you want, but still you need to gamble. With Harvest gamble is a bit reduced, but compared to delve, you need to find exact harvest craft recipe, which is rare and Harvest is not so frequent (compared to the delve, when you can reach 300-400 level at minimum and get much more fossils doing similar determenistic job).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdpA_xHXhEA&ab_channel=PathofMatth
hear our voice ggg

ı play every day 2-3 hour ı'm not make elevated item yet and ı buy 1 mtx for this season for liked my storm brand build if i cant make again this build for 2-3 hours play why ı make this build just waiting 2 week after league and ı will make meta build.
ı will start after 2 week learning the meta ı dont have wasteing time for try new builds

Adding on to a previous post of mine:

I believe the current 3.13 implementation of Harvest is pretty well balanced. Harvests can be rare to even find in a map, and when you do, it is quite rare to get a specific type that you want (Cold, Physical, Defence etc) and rarer yet to get an Augment or Remove. There is plenty of RNG involved there already.

The problem described in the manifest is really centered around discord trading.

So.... my simplest solution - add a SOULBOUND property to an item. Once you make any change to an item via the Horti, it becomes SOULBOUND and attached to your account only. You can use it across any character in your account, but becomes non-tradeable.

Problem solved with only a relatively small development cost (and actually I believe this is already implemented in a hidden way anyway with some existing items not able to be traded).

In this way the high-end players (who craft high-end items) and total economy are protected from these items. And average players who enjoy the mechanic can still improve their characters and content. And no more Discord trading of these.....

I noticed that too. Cowardly. Reminds me of how they postponed the league launch because of Cyberpunk; their spurious explanation didn't hide their weakness then, nor does it now.[/quote]

My fucking god. They did that because the event is up and winners should be seen.

Take of your tinfoil hats and keep watching the stars for your alien friends.[/quote]

I'll take off my tinfoil hat when you remove your blindfold.[/quote]

Yup. It is all a ploy to drive people away from playing a free to play video game so they make less money, less revenue and their contract with tencent is being voided resulting in 100+ employess losing their jobs.

Sounds more reasonable. You are right.

It simply decreases the amount of mirror tier items in the game, which is good.

"Slamming an exalt" is also a metaphor for crafting being supposed to be hard and having "dminishing returns".

Yet the majority of the [Removed by Support] with plenty not even having spend a single dime on a game they have enjoyed for multiple years fails to understand the concept of a metaphor.

Blizzard listened to an army of [Removed by Support] begging fopr items to rain from the sky and so the items did.

6 months later Diablo 3 was a dead wasteland and trade was non existent.

[Removed by Support]

I am glad that GGG thus far hasnt succumbed to listen to the cries of a minority.

[Removed by Support]

Harvest nerf doesnt destroy harvest crafting, it doesnt destroy the game. The game was fun and awesome and manageable, playable and affordable (in game currency) for everyone and anyone, casuals and mirrorfarmers alike, prior to harvest and it will continue to be just that.

[Removed by Support]

Thank you GGG for finally coming back to sense. People got so spoiled from Harvest crafting that they started calling "bad" items that had a tier 2 modifier.

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Fenoch wrote:

Yup. It is all a ploy to drive people away from playing a free to play video game so they make less money, less revenue and their contract with tencent is being voided resulting in 100+ employess losing their jobs.

Sounds more reasonable. You are right.

It simply decreases the amount of mirror tier items in the game, which is good.

"Slamming an exalt" is also a metaphor for crafting being supposed to be hard and having "dminishing returns".

Yet the majority of the whining children with plenty not even having spend a single dime on a game they have enjoyed for multiple years fails to understand the concept of a metaphor.

Blizzard listened to an army of whining, whinging idiotic children begging fopr items to rain from the sky and so the items did.

6 months later Diablo 3 was a dead wasteland and trade was non existent.

If you and your whining friends dont like this at all, feel free to play something else. This is JUST a game. This is not a meaningful, life altering choice yet you and the moronic army freak out like a bunch of braindead headless chicken.

I am glad that GGG thus far hasnt succumbed to listen to the cries of a minority.

This whole whining can be elevated with a maven orb to real life issues where society is being twisted and turned with a PC culture and minorities getting 100s of freebies.

Harvest nerf doesnt destroy harvest crafting, it doesnt destroy the game. The game was fun and awesome and manageable, playable and affordable (in game currency) for everyone and anyone, casuals and mirrorfarmers alike, prior to harvest and it will continue to be just that.

Morons freaking out over literally nothing is super fun to watch.

This seems less a discussion about casual vs 0.1%s (stupid terminology) and more between

Child/uneducated vs intelligent/mature.

Bring on the hate. Dont care.

You do a lot of talking for someone who doesn't care.

I never post on these update threads, but this bothers me enough to want to give another voice here.

I had high hopes that the popularity of Harvest league would help shape Path of Exile 2. Deterministic crafting is fun. Seeing this really douses my interest in 2, as I had really hoped they would make this type of crafting part of the base game. So much for that..

The problem from my perspective is not that Harvest is too powerful, it's that the original crafting methods in the game suck. Harvest is a step in the right direction. I don't want Harvest nerfed, I want it weaved into the base game.

Kill Harvest as a League Mechanic, and introduce it as part of the base game. You've introduced a better, more fun version of the game for the large majority of your playerbase, and you're removing it because it's challenging your "original vision" of the game. You came up with a better version of that vision, go with it, replace the shitty original! Times change. Path of Exile as it was in Beta no longer exists, you've made a more fun game. Why go backwards?


Path of Exile needs some competition to get their head straight, it's really unfortunate that there is nothing knocking on their door pulling away customers, forcing them to really work hard to make something great. They can make mediocre content for years to come and probably will still be the most in-depth interesting ARPG there is. I hope some other games help give some competition to that.