How to get the value you deserve.

To summarize, he wants to be paid to play this game.

"

DoubleU wrote:

To summarize, he wants to be paid to play this game.

You know, it's funny, but I could have sworn there is a name for people who do that.

...sounds something like 'you 'n' I'. Or was it 'hey pester'?

Contrary to popular belief, streamers do not get paid to play games. They get paid to wear them. Sometimes by the industry in the form of sponsorship but usually by fans who don't fit the games as attractively or entertainly as these supermodels. They want to, but for whatever reason it just doesn't seem right. The cult of personality associated with popular streamers makes about as much sense to me as idolizing supermodels, but there is no doubt both of them work a lot harder than the wannabes realise or want to admit. All they see are the moments of glory, the highlights that make it seem like these high profile figures have it easy. Like they're just being paid to do what they enjoy, to look good. But here's the secret: making it look desirable is the hardest part of the job, because that's the part they have to hide. Streamers at a certain level are celebrities and you gotta have some seriously good coping mechanisms if you're going to survive that.

I think most people are subconsciously aware of this and would, given the opportunity, wisely avoid the choice to turn something they love into something they *have to* love, publicly and effusively, every day. And by that I don't mean the clothes themselves. I mean the mere act of wearing them.



Man I am just fucking killing it with the metaphors in this thread. Maybe Kop just inspires me or something.

Or maybe oblique satire is the only avenue of truth remaining in the wake of compliance masquerading as mandatory civility. Meh. If it prompts me to be a little less lazy with my hazing, I can't fully begrudge it.

So here's a question for you: if you are getting paid for something but you didn't actually work for it, can you still say you earned it?

And how stupid, really, is this usage of the word 'make' in this context. We don't 'make' money. We merely redistribute it among ourselves as a means of facilitating goods and services. And boy howdy do we do a shitty job of it, as a society. But this is skimming awfully close to a check your privilege moment, because such idle pondering is something only those who are not forced to worry about how much they 'make' can afford. Still. "How much do you earn?" as a literal query seems a lot more respectful of someone's efforts and time than "how much do you make?" One is concerned with a person's role in the process; the other makes money itself the goal.

I think the best answer to the first query is "enough" because it is so rarely the answer given to the second. But that's nobody's fault; I don't think billionaires who want more, need more, are any less victims of this system than poor bastards who need to decide between food or rent for any given month. Neither of them have "enough".

But enough of that. If you are right, then this is a spectacularly inefficient way to go about it. One born entirely of thinking others have "enough" without wondering how or why. Or what it might have cost them.

I imagine the idea of a supermodel having a breakdown would be utterly alien to someone who thinks the job is nothing more than putting on someone else's clothes and walking on a raised platform a few times. Or a streamer being nothing more than a person who plays games all day...

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

The cult of personality associated with popular streamers makes about as much sense to me as idolizing supermodels, but there is no doubt both of them work a lot harder than the wannabes realise or want to admit. All they see are the moments of glory, the highlights that make it seem like these high profile figures have it easy. Like they're just being paid to do what they enjoy, to look good. But here's the secret: making it look desirable is the hardest part of the job, because that's the part they have to hide. Streamers at a certain level are celebrities and you gotta have some seriously good coping mechanisms if you're going to survive that.

I think most people are subconsciously aware of this and would, given the opportunity, wisely avoid the choice to turn something they love into something they *have to* love, publicly and effusively, every day. And by that I don't mean the clothes themselves. I mean the mere act of wearing them.

I don't think idolize is the right word, rather they're like the sitcom family that you've watched 100 episodes of. They feel real to you. By season 6 episode 13 you know the characters well enough to know how they would react to the situations they're put in, in the first 5 minutes of the episode.

That gets unhealthy when that syndrome pops up, hell if I remember what it's called, where you mistake that feeling of knowing someone because you follow them so closely with actually knowing them. 'But he responded to my message in chat that one time! I mod his channel! We're like bros!.

Triple unhealthy when it's lonely dudes deluding themselves over female streamers.

But to get back on track I see streamers as the sitcom stars of the modern era. Many are playing a role, or at least exaggerating some part of themselves. There are expected narratives and when something exceptionally good or bad happens the loyal audience will be able to predict the reaction - right down to the sayings and facial expressions. At least this entertainment is generally unscripted. At least? Or unfortunately?

"

innervation wrote:

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

The cult of personality associated with popular streamers makes about as much sense to me as idolizing supermodels, but there is no doubt both of them work a lot harder than the wannabes realise or want to admit. All they see are the moments of glory, the highlights that make it seem like these high profile figures have it easy. Like they're just being paid to do what they enjoy, to look good. But here's the secret: making it look desirable is the hardest part of the job, because that's the part they have to hide. Streamers at a certain level are celebrities and you gotta have some seriously good coping mechanisms if you're going to survive that.

I think most people are subconsciously aware of this and would, given the opportunity, wisely avoid the choice to turn something they love into something they *have to* love, publicly and effusively, every day. And by that I don't mean the clothes themselves. I mean the mere act of wearing them.

I don't think idolize is the right word, rather they're like the sitcom family that you've watched 100 episodes of. They feel real to you. By season 6 episode 13 you know the characters well enough to know how they would react to the situations they're put in, in the first 5 minutes of the episode.

That gets unhealthy when that syndrome pops up, hell if I remember what it's called, where you mistake that feeling of knowing someone because you follow them so closely with actually knowing them. 'But he responded to my message in chat that one time! I mod his channel! We're like bros!.

Triple unhealthy when it's lonely dudes deluding themselves over female streamers.

But to get back on track I see streamers as the sitcom stars of the modern era. Many are playing a role, or at least exaggerating some part of themselves. There are expected narratives and when something exceptionally good or bad happens the loyal audience will be able to predict the reaction - right down to the sayings and facial expressions. At least this entertainment is generally unscripted. At least? Or unfortunately?

Idolizing was the best I could come up with on the phone, but yeah, it's more like they buy into the glamour of that so-called easy life.

I'll meet you halfway regarding streamers and call them Reality TV stars. They're not really famous in the traditional sense but plenty of people watch them. Outside of the ur-reality TV show Big Brother, they're always doing something specific, something the audience can appreciate beyond getting drunk and bitching about each other. And they're always in some sort of character but not one fully scripted for them by others; instead they're some sort of hyper-extended version of themselves, stretched to their limit by the tension of the bubble combined with the stress of whatever activity is the focus of the show. That isn't to say there aren't some pretty chill reality TV shows: Making It is an excellent example of this; equally, some streamers are 100% aimed at chill experiences, ASMR-level narration and soothing their viewers. But for PoE, an activity that almost never encourages any chill, I reckon the vast majority of top tier streamers would be more like those 'I'm not here to make friends' types -- viewers have very strong feelings about them, which creates meta-drama outside of even the show. All part of the plan.

As for Celebrity Worship Syndrome, yeah, that's ugly stuff. You'll see it anywhere, and it's even worse when said celebrity capitalises on it (a certain bath-water selling neckbeard parasite comes to mind). But again with PoE, I think there's a minimum of it due to the status of PoE 'stars' being abrasive and elitist as part of their image. They're not here to make friends, not even with 'you'.

I've had my own brushes with Celebrity Worship Syndrome, typically when I get to work with or interview someone I've admired from afar for a while (eg I wrote for a game music site for a while and rubbed shoulders with some well-known composers and performers; niche but absolutely the stars in my eyes at the time). The hero worship is very brief because it's essentially unprofessional, and then you see them make mistakes and get over it. And of course my last brush with it was with Mr GGG himself, who is unfortunately a very nice person and incredibly easy to get along with despite his absolute status as a game development celebrity/sell-out/'rags to riches' success story now. Relatively speaking, the value of his company increased something near one hundredfold from alpha to 'sell out'. That's just plain ridiculous. But with my personal stance on the game and the company that bought it, I'm pretty much back where I started: admiring him and his from afar. Nice enough to know I was involved when things were most dynamic, most passionate, that I got to know, to some extent, the GGG that made PoE worthy of being bought out for stupid amounts of money. Being part of that was worth every cent I ever contributed.

...Anyway, were we discussing the weather, or was that another Kop thread?

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

...Anyway, were we discussing the weather, or was that another Kop thread?

Thanks for getting back to topic. Yesterday we had some rainy weather, but it cleared up and I just enjoyed a coffee on the balcony. Spring feelings!

There's no value to play (and thus support) this game long term in its current state. If there's no rewarding events consistently happening this game ends in the same category like the hundreds of other that offer some story where you kill bosses, and then hop on to the next game. So, the chart below doesn't surprise me at all.


If this company as well as those who benefit the most for this game to stay relevant don't care (based on history), where they just want to milk the community until that chart ends up being steady at the rock bottom, that's alright. No, @DoubleU I don't want to get paid to play this game, I want to see value out of playing it better than most, and I'm sharing with the community what it can do to get that value. Instead of buying support packs and MTX buy yourself entry fees for these events. In the long run this will only bring you a better value, where you'll have a bigger and better chance to get something far better in return than what you've been receiving.

GGG will generate their $ from private league creation as well from the fact that their product will become far more appealing for others to be a part of as it grows in value, and there's rewarding events happening consistently. If nobody continues to do what it can be done, what it should be done like some have suggested I can start doing it for the community, and at first it will be challenging for this info to reach the masses who prefer the convenience and censorship that comes from places like Reddit.

One day I can make a thread with pages about Reddit + Twitch and all the ways how one can censor, promote and manipulate certain information through them by how their designed as well as the tech being available. As I would start gaining popularity (attention), so the community can gain more value from these events, guess who has the most to lose? GGG at this point can't lose more than they've already lost.

Finally, you are welcome to continue try and derail this thread, discussing about the weather, your breakfast, and so on, or bait me like DoubleU did with character defamation against me.

Even if I wanted to - I can't spend my money on entry fees for these events, because while you talk and talk and talk and talk, you don't host an event.

Stop whining, get active. If you think enough people would be in on it.

"

Char1983 wrote:

Even if I wanted to - I can't spend my money on entry fees for these events, because while you talk and talk and talk and talk, you don't host an event.

Stop whining, get active. If you think enough people would be in on it.

^ What 'e said...

"

Kopogero wrote:

There's no value to play (and thus support) this game long term in its current state. If there's no rewarding events consistently happening this game ends in the same category like the hundreds of other that offer some story where you kill bosses, and then hop on to the next game.

"and then hop on to the next game" <-- So, you're admitting that PoE is a "game?"

"

...No, @DoubleU I don't want to get paid to play this game, I want to see value out of playing it better than most, and I'm sharing with the community what it can do to get that value. Instead of buying support packs and MTX buy yourself entry fees for these events. In the long run this will only bring you a better value, where you'll have a bigger and better chance to get something far better in return than what you've been receiving.

Stop redefining "winning money through competitive play" as "value." It's just... Dude, seriously? Do you think you are making a cogent argument, here?

Just stop.

If you don't want to play PoE because you aren't getting paid, then don't. Really. Just don't play it if you don't feel that you're getting any "value" out of it. If you want for-pay competitive play, there are plenty of games out there for you to post arguments about other than PoE.

But, some people play games for "fun" and they see that as "value." When players decide that they are no longer receiving fun from playing PoE, they'll stop playing. Until that moment occurs, stop insisting that they aren't receiving value from their experience because they're not getting paid for competitive gaming. They. Don't. Care.

If you want PoE "Events" so much, meaning you get paid based on near-decade of labor by developers and your few minutes of clicking stuffs better and faster than someone else clicks stuffs, then... go sponsor your own event. Do it yourself instead of insisting someone else has to do it for you.

Be sure to do all the legal work required in your country to engage in for-profit competitive events, too.... You know, 'cause that's also "value."

I don't know why OP is still hanging around this game. Maybe try to get value out of Wolcen or something (sorry Charan xD).