Passive Tree - Kind of Boring

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If a player (in general) can't (be bothered to) plan in advance, or even research what the game is about, then PoE certainly is not his/her type of game. I'm not saying those players are casuals and should play another game. It's just that this game requires more than in-game attention.

I Think this is the crux of the issue; some players want to jump into the action, next thing you know your 120 hours in, moving to the next difficulty BAM your spec sucks... Trash and re-roll seems a bit harsh.

I remember playing and having fun with my Paladin in D2 -- until nightmare mode when I realized my spec was complete ass. What did I do? I downloaded the trainer that let me respec (I played with friends in LAN parties).

I think people want to just jump into the game and play from the get go, without a lot of meta-gaming.

Now there is limited respecs via the orbs, I have not been playing long enough to tell how rare they are, that may be the real answer.

because people are lazy.

I don't want this game to be designed with lazy people in mind.

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Linchpin wrote:

because people are lazy.

I don't want this game to be designed with lazy people in mind.

That is a bit harsh, but everyone has an opinion.

But let me say in the last few days of playing (to get back on topic) an archer (Ranger) going for all the ranged skills (planned out online thank you) I discovered that in reality (as opposed to paper) that the paths all gave DEX points, but at ~level 22 I started to need STR and INT to level gems and wear armor. So I needed to rethink my build and look for ways to get a little STR/INT. This is something that could be alleviated I think in those paths by add in in some other attributes in the paths to capstones or in the capstones themselves.

Man maybe you shouldnt be trying to go for specs all over the damn board thats your problem

its not boring

you are just dumb

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Racheakt wrote:

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Linchpin wrote:

because people are lazy.

I don't want this game to be designed with lazy people in mind.

That is a bit harsh, but everyone has an opinion.

But let me say in the last few days of playing (to get back on topic) an archer (Ranger) going for all the ranged skills (planned out online thank you) I discovered that in reality (as opposed to paper) that the paths all gave DEX points, but at ~level 22 I started to need STR and INT to level gems and wear armor. So I needed to rethink my build and look for ways to get a little STR/INT. This is something that could be alleviated I think in those paths by add in in some other attributes in the paths to capstones or in the capstones themselves.

Why not just get jewelery that adds stats?

Well, the topic is a few days old but I think not too old for me to comment a bit on several points made.

To alleviate the underwhelming feeling of "filler" passives.

To better integrate players in the world.

To help planning.

To better immerse new and casual players.


* web page needs a more complete character tools, I guess that is planned. That means something similar to that offline editor - calcualating bonuses. Maybe also calculate gear bonuses etc.
* while user waits for installation open up that character tools and guide a new user, help him plan a new character
* new players should get a tutorial ingame (that means first char on account, also it should be togglable). Tutorial means more than just a few popups! Need animations, highlighted stuff, arrows where to click, graphical display of required actions etc. Tutorial might suggest a bit regarding char build for the first character on account (or second if first never reached lvl 5).
* maybe they could allow one full respec to max 20 points for the FIRST character.
* fill that skill grid with even more big nodes that give meaningful bonuses, especially unique bonuses are fun. There is a lot of them but even more would be a treat.
* items and skills are already capped with dex/str/int, don't see much need to raise that. Maybe for some really unique skills, maybe when joining a lot of supports. A good way to balance stuff.


Thats just some brainstorming. Also I found out that new casuals get overwhelmed in this game. REALLY overwhelmed. They can play just ok, but the sheer complexity will totally baffle em. We just need it simple enough so they can make a suboptimal build. Right now even skill gems can be problems and leveling up. Make the plus signs flash a bit over time.... etc blah blah. Also noticed skill gems are confusing. Orbs, identifies. A good tutorial could work miracles :) But now I am repeating myself.


For the hardcore crowd. I can already see how to spread it out even further. Add new elements, element mixes. New types of attacks, statuses, buffs, debuffs... argh. There is so many possibilities. At first I was afraid due the skill tree. But now I understand it better and there is so much room for expansion.

I'd say to those bored of the skill tree - you guys expect alot of bling I guess. That could be easily added by a few UI changes. And then you would feel alot better with the same "boring" skill tree :)

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Neikius wrote:

I'd say to those bored of the skill tree - you guys expect alot of bling I guess. That could be easily added by a few UI changes. And then you would feel alot better with the same "boring" skill tree :)

I, for one, love the skill trees. When WoW was dumbed down with the new trees, I lost interest. D3 - For optimal results one or two builds suffice for each class for the highest levels (Yes I have 2 lvl 60s in Inferno, yes past Act I).
I support this game because it is a lot more enjoyable level by level.
Keep the skill tree the way it is.

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Neikius wrote:

* web page needs a more complete character tools, I guess that is planned. That means something similar to that offline editor - calcualating bonuses. Maybe also calculate gear bonuses etc.

A summary of the bonuses could be useful, but not the gear as its quite random and you can't (and probably won't) get the desired effects on your gear without lots of trading/grinding/luck.

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Neikius wrote:

* while user waits for installation open up that character tools and guide a new user, help him plan a new character

Or they could go and read the countless topics on the forums.

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Neikius wrote:

* new players should get a tutorial ingame (that means first char on account, also it should be togglable). Tutorial means more than just a few popups! Need animations, highlighted stuff, arrows where to click, graphical display of required actions etc. Tutorial might suggest a bit regarding char build for the first character on account (or second if first never reached lvl 5).

I don't think its necessary in this game as its quite easy to figure out.

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Neikius wrote:

* maybe they could allow one full respec to max 20 points for the FIRST character.

Not really useful as 20 points is like 3-5 hours in the game. Just stash, delete and start again. You'll level faster the 2nd time if you kept some gear too.

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Neikius wrote:

* fill that skill grid with even more big nodes that give meaningful bonuses, especially unique bonuses are fun. There is a lot of them but even more would be a treat.

Easy to say, hard to balance.

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Neikius wrote:

* items and skills are already capped with dex/str/int, don't see much need to raise that. Maybe for some really unique skills, maybe when joining a lot of supports. A good way to balance stuff.

Actually, they should be raised so people don't think the stats nodes are just for filling.

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Neikius wrote:

Also I found out that new casuals get overwhelmed in this game. REALLY overwhelmed. They can play just ok, but the sheer complexity will totally baffle em. We just need it simple enough so they can make a suboptimal build.

It IS simple enough to make a sub-optimal build. What's harder for them is probably making a character viable for end-game as well, but then again, they'll probably learn by the time they reach that stage. If not, well, maybe the game isn't suited for them.

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Neikius wrote:

Right now even skill gems can be problems and leveling up. Make the plus signs flash a bit over time.... etc blah blah. Also noticed skill gems are confusing. Orbs, identifies.

Most orbs are common enough that you can use them to see what they do if you are unsure. Some skill gems and how overlapping effects work can be confusing at first, I admit. However, there are plenty of threads on the forums explaining those harder to understand concepts. You just need to not be lazy and go search for it.

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GFValkyria wrote:

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Neikius wrote:

* fill that skill grid with even more big nodes that give meaningful bonuses, especially unique bonuses are fun. There is a lot of them but even more would be a treat.

Easy to say, hard to balance.

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Neikius wrote:

* items and skills are already capped with dex/str/int, don't see much need to raise that. Maybe for some really unique skills, maybe when joining a lot of supports. A good way to balance stuff.

Those two.
The minimum amount of passive seems to be quite low and easy to achieve with a few +Dex/str/int bonuses on the items. This good be spread further, so specialized characters are more ... special.

Well don't misunderstand me :) I like the game how it is. Also I like reading forums.

But 90% of the userbase won't. Giving em a hand beats useless spam about basics on general chat.

Also with multiple path to some of the really good big nodes this gives you a nice choice and balance - will you take it early and just get some +str nodes, or will you take the roundabout way to collect all other meaningful bonuses on the way?

About gear, eh, just gotta explain em how they can use orbs and get orbs. Should be fine after some rerolling...