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Righteous Fire / Agnostic / Full Life condition

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KoomZog wrote:
After some research, I'm aware this is a known interaction. I didn't know about it until I tried it in game and was very surprised this interaction works differently from all other full life conditions. Since it goes against GGG statements and does not follow the pattern from earlier Full Life interactions, I consider it a bug.

In this forum post from 2018, Mark_GGG states:

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While you will not actually be consistently on absolutely full life because you will degen a bit every frame before regening it, it is possible to benefit from those bonuses. The "full life" condition was changed a while ago so that if the amount of life you're recovering per second is higher than the amount you're losing per second, such that you are hitting full and falling back again each frame, you count as on full life the whole time.

The change he mentions was in patch 2.6 as clarified by Hrishi_GGG in this reddit thread, even though it was not in the 2.6 patch notes.

Let's say a character is using the Damage on Full Life Support and Blood Rage. As long as the life loss from Blood Rage is counteracted by HP regen or life leech, the character is considered at full life at all times and will get the bonus damage from Damage on Full Life Support. This is the interaction most people would expect and what has been confirmed both Mark and other GGG employees before.

In my case, my character is using Righteous Fire and has enough HP regen from various sources to offset the degen from Righteous Fire. I see no reason why this character should not be considered at full life, just like the Blood Rage character. I tried using Agnostic in my RF build and it does not behave in a way that is consistent with GGG statements or with other effects with Full Life conditions. Agnostic reads:

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Maximum Energy Shield is 0
While not on Full Life, Sacrifice 20% of Mana per Second to Recover that much Life

Based on GGG statements, the character should be considered at Full Life as long as HP regen is greater than HP degen. Agnostic should not trigger as long as the character is considered at Full Life, but it does and drains mana rapidly. Maybe this is an Agnostic specific bug, rather than being tied to RF. I haven't tried it with Blood Rage + Agnostic or RF + some other effect with a Full Life condition.

I tried equipping Springleaf, just in case there was some strange rounding error when I was just barely sustaining HP, but it made no difference.

I'm guessing Agnostic was somehow implemented differently than other Full Life conditions on skills and items and I'm hoping this bug can be resolved soon.


Thanks for your report, I'll pass this on.
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Mark_GGG wrote:
To clarify, The Agnostic handles lowering the drain when total life lost per second is lower than 20% of your mana. It does not and cannot account for any other sources of life recovery that are also countering some of that life loss, only not countering more itself than there is. I.E if you are losing life equal to 10% of max mana per second, then Agnostic will only drain 10% mana per second, not 20%, because that's enough that it counters all the life loss. This calculation can only account for The Agnostic, and is independant of other sources of life recovery.

From a mechanical perspective, the Agnostic cannot possibly know whether your total life recovery is outpacing total life loss per second, because the value of total life recovery cannot be known until after The Agnostic has calculated how much life recovery it's providing - it's a part of that value, so inhernetly has to be an earlier step - so the more direct answer to the question in the OP title is "because the Agnostic has to have worked out how much life to apply before total recovery can be used to determine whether you count as on full life or not".

Source

Hope this helps!
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KoomZog wrote:
After some research, I'm aware this is a known interaction. I didn't know about it until I tried it in game and was very surprised this interaction works differently from all other full life conditions. Since it goes against GGG statements and does not follow the pattern from earlier Full Life interactions, I consider it a bug.

In this forum post from 2018, Mark_GGG states:

"
While you will not actually be consistently on absolutely full life because you will degen a bit every frame before regening it, it is possible to benefit from those bonuses. The "full life" condition was changed a while ago so that if the amount of life you're recovering per second is higher than the amount you're losing per second, such that you are hitting full and falling back again each frame, you count as on full life the whole time.

The change he mentions was in patch 2.6 as clarified by Hrishi_GGG in this reddit thread, even though it was not in the 2.6 patch notes.

Let's say a character is using the Damage on Full Life Support and Blood Rage. As long as the life loss from Blood Rage is counteracted by HP regen or life leech, the character is considered at full life at all times and will get the bonus damage from Damage on Full Life Support. This is the interaction most people would expect and what has been confirmed both Mark and other GGG employees before.

In my case, my character is using Righteous Fire and has enough HP regen from various sources to offset the degen from Righteous Fire. I see no reason why this character should not be considered at full life, just like the Blood Rage character. I tried using Agnostic in my RF build and it does not behave in a way that is consistent with GGG statements or with other effects with Full Life conditions. Agnostic reads:

"
Maximum Energy Shield is 0
While not on Full Life, Sacrifice 20% of Mana per Second to Recover that much Life

Based on GGG statements, the character should be considered at Full Life as long as HP regen is greater than HP degen. Agnostic should not trigger as long as the character is considered at Full Life, but it does and drains mana rapidly. Maybe this is an Agnostic specific bug, rather than being tied to RF. I haven't tried it with Blood Rage + Agnostic or RF + some other effect with a Full Life condition.

I tried equipping Springleaf, just in case there was some strange rounding error when I was just barely sustaining HP, but it made no difference.

I'm guessing Agnostic was somehow implemented differently than other Full Life conditions on skills and items and I'm hoping this bug can be resolved soon.


Just getting back to you, the currenct behaviour is intended for the reason mentioned above by taggedjc.
Last edited by Jatin_GGG on May 4, 2021, 9:08:05 PM
I am also using MOM and the Agnostic. my mana regen is over 3k and my life regen is 614 and 2,300 when not on full life. I ran into the same issue and my life would be always 10 health below max and my mana would be 17 below max while running RF.I do not reserve any life or mana so to see them sitting below max was weird. Took me a while but I came to a simple resolution to this question.

I bought a Reaper's Persuit weapon which grants 15% increased movement speed while at full life. I put it on, turned on RF and I indeed did get the increased movement speed. Even though my life and mana were below max for some reason.

So it seems it is just a bug and if it just sits below max with RF and does not move, it would seem you are considered on full life.

Hope this helps

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