Imagine Telling the Devs To Scrap Another League, Again (Harvest ̶i̶s̶ was Amazing for Many Reasons)

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innervation wrote:

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Pizzarugi wrote:

That's why I liked Harvest league so much. It allowed me to progress my build and gear without having to rely so heavily on others via trading. Crafting is way too RNG ridden for the average player to utilize, so trading becomes the primary mode of upgrading one's build.

Harvest gave players a new way to acquire better gear entirely on their own. There is nothing more satisfying than taking a piece of gear that had nothing, and turning it into something worth using. It gave me a sense of pride to create something with my own time and effort rather than having to PM people trying to find one who isn't a price fixer and is trying to pawn off their gear that remotely fits what I'm looking for.

I don't think it's great for the game that the answer to 'how do I get best in slot gear for slot X?' is 'go find a base and scour it'.

My dream iteration of Harvest would be using a Harvest craft soul binds the loot to you and there is a maximum amount of times that you can Harvest craft on a piece before you can no longer do it any more. Or, like the current crafting bench <can have up to 3 crafted mods> Harvest crafts would count as crafted mods.

If these limitations were in place they probably wouldn't have to nerf it as much, if at all.

To me the best iteration of crafting in general is finding good gear, then modifying it to suit your needs, or power it up further - not fabricating every slot out of plain cloth blank slate pieces.

I'd rather not have crafting limitations at all. If GGG took the suggestion you made, they might as well dissolve the entirety of the league and slap anything worthwhile onto the Betrayal crafting bench we have right now.

But I would concede that crafting with Harvest soulbinds the gear to the crafter and makes it so they can't be traded. I'll go so far as to say seeds can't be traded either. Make it a mechanic designed to give players their own means of powering themselves up that can't be assisted with trade in any way.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

If GGG took the suggestion you made, they might as well dissolve the entirety of the league and slap anything worthwhile onto the Betrayal crafting bench we have right now.

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Mortyx wrote:

We are already there thou.

You're both right. I don't have a fantastically strong vision of what I do want, just what I don't like.

I hope they keep iterating on 'smart loot' like at the end of grand heists . I like appraising items. The good news is even in an environment where (usually atlas) bases are king, there is still a time period in a fresh league to ID and sell finds. As the days drag on that becomes more and more of a fool's errand.

That trajectory may be inevitable, but forgive me for trying to keep it intact.

I think harvest would be best implemented in a very limited way, like only letting you edit an item a limited number of times before locking or corrupting it. If a smarter loot system is implemented at some point, this could lead to people actually identifying rares and then using harvest to make them potentially useful, but still using the crafting currency to construct the really end game stuff. Garden management sim absolutely has to go, though.

So, we now have the information for 3.13, and are none the wiser. At least, I am not.

Well, we know a little: Harvest must be pretty rare, considering the Atlas specialization will increase the chance of finding Harvest by 2% - effectively giving one extra Harvest encounter per 50 (!!!) maps. That is, for the average player, more like once or twice a week. And we can save only 10 crafts.

We still don't know how much the actual crafts were nerfed, and GGG shied away from anything bold, like making items account-bound or limiting the number of Harvest crafts per item. Not sure I like that, because it likely means that either crafts are gutted, or they are so rare and precious that it takes away crafting from the low end (that needs it) and still allows ridiculous 6T1 crafting at the high end (which was identified as the core problem by many).

Any other thoughts?

I hope there will be a way to make Harvest appear more often via Atlas passives.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

I hope there will be a way to make Harvest appear more often via Atlas passives.

There is a way to make Harvest appear more often but only by 1-2% per node, so near or even less than 10% and even then it's meaningless because it's pointless to engage with the mechanic anymore. The making of the garden as I want is what made me like the league in the first place and if we can't choose what seeds we plant then what is the point of any of this? It's not even Harvest anymore so idk why they are calling it that. It's just Bestiary that's more rare and with even less determinism than before.

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Char1983 wrote:

So, we now have the information for 3.13, and are none the wiser. At least, I am not.

Well, we know a little: Harvest must be pretty rare, considering the Atlas specialization will increase the chance of finding Harvest by 2% - effectively giving one extra Harvest encounter per 50 (!!!) maps. That is, for the average player, more like once or twice a week. And we can save only 10 crafts.

We still don't know how much the actual crafts were nerfed, and GGG shied away from anything bold, like making items account-bound or limiting the number of Harvest crafts per item. Not sure I like that, because it likely means that either crafts are gutted, or they are so rare and precious that it takes away crafting from the low end (that needs it) and still allows ridiculous 6T1 crafting at the high end (which was identified as the core problem by many).

Any other thoughts?

Simple, they ruined the Harvest mechanic just as most expected they would. You have to understand, these are the same people who did what they did to Synthesis.

Here's the main takeaway as I see it:
- Made Harvest into another boring and bland activity as everything else because they don't want anyone to do any activity in the game other than killing monsters. Remember, you can only have fun in video games by killing things, anything else is not permitted.
- They are trying to make you feel like you have some choice over the content when realistically it's near or even less than 10% chance to even spawn a grove, so even more rng tied behind the mechanic and that's not to mention that now there is rng in what seeds it randomly generates for you so no more choosing what crafts you want to farm.

This was the last straw for me honestly. I'm taking an indefinite break for now. It was fun while it lasted but as it stands, I don't think I'm interested in what the game has to offer anymore.

Aww :(

No more item editor for you guys, how sad. :(

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skillcode wrote:

Aww :(

No more item editor for you guys, how sad. :(

Indeed sad for people who do not want to engage in trading (you can't do proper crafting without trading, unless this game is literally your job). Harvest was a godsend for people who play this game casually, it was, for me, literally build-enabling.

I'd still pay for a voided private league with Harvest enabled.

EDIT: Unless they also gutted the crafts that are available, I am pretty sure the "item editor" will be back at the top end, but it will be rather pointless for casual people. Kind of the worst of both worlds.

It's also optional. People don't like certain leagues. That is normal. If they would not implement leagues that some people don't like then they could never implement any league mechanics into the core game ever

Simple. Logic.

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MLGonthorian wrote:

The making of the garden as I want is what made me like the league in the first place and if we can't choose what seeds we plant then what is the point of any of this?

I disagree about the seeds part. I played through all of Harvest league without trading for my seeds and I pretty much planted whatever I could find out in the world. It was entirely RNG what seeds I got then, it'll be entirely RNG what plants I'll get with this reworked system.

The only thing that changes, which is what I greatly dislike, is how many crops you can harvest per encounter. I don't mind random gen crops, but only being able to choose 1 crop out of several is pretty damn restrictive, even with the Atlas passive that adds more crops and a 10% chance for unchosen plots not wilting.

I know Harvest league is over, but 10% chance of encounter plus greatly diminished access to farm plots feels like the system was gutted. I only hope GGG didn't add salt to the wound by eliminating a few Harvest crafts.

Also, I doubt we're only getting 2% increased spawn chance. If I had to guess, they'll be on the small nodes leading to the big ones, so maybe 3-6% give or take.