Minion Builds Need a Nerf

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nadakuu wrote:

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MoLoK13 wrote:

Looking at 95% of builds and thinking "huh, I can play this but I know I'm making a bad choice because the obvious and better one is minion build" is not healthy to the game long-term.

you see, you look at the numbers and misunderstand the route cause, just like GGG does. Summoner is not crazy op , you need to invest a lot and be quite mindful of your play as things can quickly spiral out of control.

No, the real issue is that GGG is giving us league after league where there is limited amount of choice in what we can play. minions are good because they can soak up damage and let you remain farther from the combat dangerzones. They let the player concentrate on positioning.

So what the route cause of frustation is that GGG refuses to fix subpar skills and playstyles (melee) to be more fluid in an arpg game.

Defenses need to mean more , and evasion / armour need an overhaul.
Energy shield needs to mean more then just having a high ehp. We need more access to flat and % life - especially on the right side of the tree to make more meaningful choices.

This is unlikely to change as GGG should be more apply nammed $$$ as they have no care about the player experience nor do they care about anything besides taking in mtx money. Quality of last 3 leagues has been a D- at best.
None of it should of been released in the state they were and the balance changes are simply to sell you the next meta mtx.

tldr; instead of asking for nerf to one playstyle - lets ask for a buff for the lesser played ones.

Sadly that GGG does not read forum threads

To OP, There are many more builds much more OP than Minion builds. Minion build are not fast clearing and are not tanky build. You need some investment to get good DPS and defence as with other builds.
COntagion ED build are much cheaper than minion build and can do all content.
Why don't nerf Contagion ED build as well.

Why don't just nerf all skills except single attack skills like Heavy strikes. All AOE skills like melee splash etc and range melee support should be nerf to the ground so all players should only play single target skills at point blank to hit mob in order to do all game content. See what will happen to the POE player base.

IMO, it's really hard to balance all skills, imagine melee skill players complaining about other skills being ranged and higher damage without investment.

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nadakuu wrote:

you see, you look at the numbers and misunderstand the route cause, just like GGG does. Summoner is not crazy op , you need to invest a lot and be quite mindful of your play as things can quickly spiral out of control.

No, the real issue is that GGG is giving us league after league where there is limited amount of choice in what we can play. minions are good because they can soak up damage and let you remain farther from the combat dangerzones. They let the player concentrate on positioning.

So what the route cause of frustation is that GGG refuses to fix subpar skills and playstyles (melee) to be more fluid in an arpg game.

Defenses need to mean more , and evasion / armour need an overhaul.
Energy shield needs to mean more then just having a high ehp. We need more access to flat and % life - especially on the right side of the tree to make more meaningful choices.

This is unlikely to change as GGG should be more apply nammed $$$ as they have no care about the player experience nor do they care about anything besides taking in mtx money. Quality of last 3 leagues has been a D- at best.
None of it should of been released in the state they were and the balance changes are simply to sell you the next meta mtx.

tldr; instead of asking for nerf to one playstyle - lets ask for a buff for the lesser played ones.

I agree with you, the point is not in necromancers, but in the fact that not all builds can afford to ideally control their position and constantly cause damage. It is necessary to completely reduce the speed of the game so that the player has the opportunity to respond to a threat to life. Recycle all skills so that they do not cover everything on the screen. Strengthen and redo the ability to "fortify" so that no one except melee could use it.

Go back to the WoW forum.

So many are fraid to lose their op broken power. So they try to clown OP as though infinite powercreep is the answer to keep everyone happy. Shortsigthed that's what that is and can't think beyond their own egos want to keep summoner OP.

Summoner is not OP, its just a play style many enjoy, which is why it is popular. Sure you can get them strong, but they require a ton of investment.

I think its lame asking for builds to be nerfed, why ruin other peoples fun? The request should be to buff a particular build, that you feel may be underpowered. Minions were sh1t tier for so long, they got a long overdue (but too big) buff in 3.8. Since then there have been 3 leagues of nerfs to them to the point that they are in a good place with significant investment.

The post should be "buff melee properly, buff bow builds properly, buff self-casting (that doesn't involve archmage), and buff totems".

Nerfs are not the way to go with the exception of broken builds, I.e. herald stacking and archmage last league.

haha. yeah, summoners are clearly a problem
let me guess, 3xg will remove bone offering from the game like they did with spirit offering
and, of course, cursing minions with elemental weakness is a good idea
lets force summoners to use gem swap for purity of elements!

have u seen top zombiemancer last league? he used minion gems in BOW instead of conwoking wand. zombiemancer with a bow.

The biggest problem of minions right now, is that they break the balance of the other classes. For example do you think awakened multistrike is expensive because of melee builds? Or because of minions. Do you think that sometimes pledge of hands is expensive because of selfcast skills or because there is a busted spectre that uses it?

Then when they nerf melee gems to nerf minions, the ones who end most prejudiced are the melee archetypes.

In my opinion the biggest strength in minion builds is that they are too tanky. You slap a single node of minion %hp regen in the tree and your minions are pretty much immortal. Making necros having to heavily invest in minion life or having to constantly keep summoning their minions would already balance they a lot. (of course it would need a rework of how summoning spectres work, maybe giving the spectre gem a "memory" would be enough).

I love arakhalis fang and hoag but i know it's kinda busted when the spiders and the scorpion are immortal, it's just not completely busted because they have a duration and require certain hard conditions to be summoned again(aka using desecrate and writhing jar or keep using a skill to get poison charges) but i would be fine with GGG reducing their duration by half to make it more balanced.

For skeletons, simple removing vaal skeletons from the game, or making so they have a 90% less damage multiplier would be enough, probably.

I can't understand why people demand (other people's) builds be nerfed.

It's not like you can waltz through endgame without decent gear and thorough knowledge. Getting the knowledge -is- your investment. Great gear can add a few levels, young reflexes can add a couple more, but familiarity with the gameplay is king.

Leave summoners alone. Ask for other builds to be made better.

Nobody is playing summoner this league

people are playing volatile dead which is homing missiles
you just have to stand still for a second and shoot a billion homing missiles at sirus without even having to search for him
its like winter orb
easy clear
VD will get nurfed homing radius will be reduced to almost nothingness and they will become slow as fuck

Summoners have very low clearspeed and low survivability
any melee build is cheaper and better