Stacking Mana as a defense vs life and energy shield.

Life

double life recovery from life leech = Vaal pact skill node

Life leech > applicable to attacks/spells

% increase life? = available
flat increase life? = available

flat life regen? = available
% of maximum life regen? = available

% life recovery on block? = available
Global increase life recovery? = available

can have auras/heralds without being handicapped? = yes (reserved mana instead of life)
can stack more than 20k life? = very unlikely
Immune to chaos damage? = impossible
Life RECHARGE? = NO

Energy shield

double energy shield recovery from energy shield leech = Ghost Reaver skill node

Energy shield leech > applicable to attacks/spells

% increase energy shield? = available
flat increase energy shield? = available

flat energy shield regen? = available
% of maximum energy shield regen? = available

% energy shield recovery on block? = Aegis aurora (based on armour)only
Global increase energy shield recovery? = available

can have auras/heralds without being handicapped? = yes (reserved mana instead of life)
can stack more than 20k energy shield? = possible even without legacy gears
Immune to chaos damage? = Yes through chaos inoculation
energy shield RECHARGE? = Yes

Mana


double mana recovery from mana leech = NONE

Mana leech > applicable to attacks ONLY excluding spells
LEGACY watcher eye with % lightning damage leech as mana do not count same goes for vessel of vinktar (flask)

% increase mana? = available
flat increase mana = available


flat mana regen? = available
% of maximum mana regen? = Cloak of Defiance only

% mana recovery on block? = available
Global increase mana recovery? = available


can have auras/heralds without being handicapped? = NO
can stack more than 20k mana? = very unlikely
Immune to chaos damage? = impossible
Mana RECHARGE? = No



Very obvious who the winner is.
Please buff mana users and do not nerf archmage.

Yeah but mana regen can get like 2-3k per second pretty easily, especially on the builds that have high mana pools.

Mana was never supposed to be a primary defence, its secondary. It shouldn't have the same amount of recovery as life and ES, as they are primary forms of defence. I mean, technically the most recovery you would need for it to be equal defencively is like 60-70% of life/es right?

And archmage only needs to be nerfed in the sense that it gets a short duration tag on duration based skills. That way you cant cast something like brands once per map and just keep recycling them with the insane amount of added damage without any drawbacks.

Or make archmage the same as Innervate or arcange surge in that it gives you a global buff when you use it, but again with a very short duration, but needs to be used regularly to get the actual benefit.

FYI also life can get recharge through timeless jewels.
And all shields can get % recovery on block.

from those 3 resources, only mana can increase your damage and it increases by a lot.

TBH, compare those 3 resources 1:1 is kinda bullshit, if we need 3 resources that do exactly the same thing why do we need 3 in the first place? why not just 1 resource?

Yea, don't nerf archmage!
I barely did everything in the game with LL storm brand archmage and will do it next league with OOS or arc or blade vortex or ball lightning archmage because I like playing on easy mode.

MoM is one of the worst defense layers imo, so they really don't need a nerf. This mechanic was in the game for god knows how long and no one batted an eye. The problem is 100% archmage.

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Nubman wrote:

Yeah but mana regen can get like 2-3k per second pretty easily, especially on the builds that have high mana pools.

Mana was never supposed to be a primary defence, its secondary. It shouldn't have the same amount of recovery as life and ES, as they are primary forms of defence. I mean, technically the most recovery you would need for it to be equal defencively is like 60-70% of life/es right?

And archmage only needs to be nerfed in the sense that it gets a short duration tag on duration based skills. That way you cant cast something like brands once per map and just keep recycling them with the insane amount of added damage without any drawbacks.

Or make archmage the same as Innervate or arcange surge in that it gives you a global buff when you use it, but again with a very short duration, but needs to be used regularly to get the actual benefit.

FYI also life can get recharge through timeless jewels.
And all shields can get % recovery on block..

If you stack mana, you are restricted to only using cloak of defiance/ pledge of hands etc and you are heavily handicapped when using auras or heralds unlike those ES/Life based build.

And can you regenerate 2k or 3k mana regen easily without sacrificing dps/defense? Nope.

And regenerating 2k or 3k mana even worthy of mentioning since the next second it will be gone using arch mage leaving little defense left while casting? And if you're not using archmage you deal little dps for stacking those mana mods?

There is a reason why life/ES builds can face tank sirus a8 die beam or shaper slam or triple balls whereas mana based builds can't.

Edit: FYI life recharge through timeless jewels is not the same as INNATE recharge. You are still sacrificing a jewel slot even there is a such thing as "life recharge" . Yep i mis-read the poe suffix/prefix and shields can get % recovery indeed

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YoursTruly86 wrote:

"

Nubman wrote:

Yeah but mana regen can get like 2-3k per second pretty easily, especially on the builds that have high mana pools.

Mana was never supposed to be a primary defence, its secondary. It shouldn't have the same amount of recovery as life and ES, as they are primary forms of defence. I mean, technically the most recovery you would need for it to be equal defencively is like 60-70% of life/es right?

And archmage only needs to be nerfed in the sense that it gets a short duration tag on duration based skills. That way you can cast something like brands once per map and just keep recycling them with the insane amount of added damage without any drawbacks.

If you stack mana, you are restricted to only using cloak of defiance/ pledge of hands etc and you are heavily handicapped when using auras or heralds unlike those ES/Life based build.

And can you regenerate 2k or 3k mana regen easily without sacrificing dps/defense? Nope.

And regenerating 2k or 3k mana even worthy of mentioning since the next second it will be gone using arch mage leaving little defense left while casting? And if you're not using archmage you deal little dps for stacking those mana mods?

There is a reason why life/ES builds can face tank sirus a8 die beam or shaper slam or triple balls whereas mana based builds can't.

Agnostic mana builds can be far tankier than pure life from what Ive seen, especially with arcane cloak thrown in. Yes, full es builds are still going to be tankier overall, because it is the easiest pool to push to high limits, and is the only defence that can eliminate one type of incoming dmg entirely.

And having that much mana regen is used exactly for archmage in the current game, so that casting doesnt cripple you.

There is also Ivory tower builds, they are a thing.

As I edited in my first post, the huge dmg bonus you get on archmage when you stack mana is fine for skills that need to keep getting re-cast, but too good on skills that can be refreshed and kept going for the full duration of an encounter once you cast the first time.

I will actually be surprised if what I said in my first post isn't the "fix" to the skill - that it gives a short global buff to active skills once it is cast from skills that it is linked in.

"

Ozxell wrote:

from those 3 resources, only mana can increase your damage and it increases by a lot.

TBH, compare those 3 resources 1:1 is kinda bullshit, if we need 3 resources that do exactly the same thing why do we need 3 in the first place? why not just 1 resource?

If you stack mana then you expect some form of return for sacrificing all those mods for DPS/defense.

Nerf archmage, and its back to those same old shit ES/Life facetanking everything whereas mana builds couldn't.


It's the only thing that draws users from stacking mana for DPS/Defense.

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Nubman wrote:

"

YoursTruly86 wrote:

"

Nubman wrote:

Yeah but mana regen can get like 2-3k per second pretty easily, especially on the builds that have high mana pools.

Mana was never supposed to be a primary defence, its secondary. It shouldn't have the same amount of recovery as life and ES, as they are primary forms of defence. I mean, technically the most recovery you would need for it to be equal defencively is like 60-70% of life/es right?

And archmage only needs to be nerfed in the sense that it gets a short duration tag on duration based skills. That way you can cast something like brands once per map and just keep recycling them with the insane amount of added damage without any drawbacks.

If you stack mana, you are restricted to only using cloak of defiance/ pledge of hands etc and you are heavily handicapped when using auras or heralds unlike those ES/Life based build.

And can you regenerate 2k or 3k mana regen easily without sacrificing dps/defense? Nope.

And regenerating 2k or 3k mana even worthy of mentioning since the next second it will be gone using arch mage leaving little defense left while casting? And if you're not using archmage you deal little dps for stacking those mana mods?

There is a reason why life/ES builds can face tank sirus a8 die beam or shaper slam or triple balls whereas mana based builds can't.

Agnostic mana builds can be far tankier than pure life from what Ive seen, especially with arcane cloak thrown in. Yes, full es builds are still going to be tankier overall, because it is the easiest pool to push to high limits, and is the only defence that can eliminate one type of incoming dmg entirely.

And having that much mana regen is used exactly for archmage in the current game, so that casting doesnt cripple you.

There is also Ivory tower builds, they are a thing.

As I edited in my first post, the huge dmg bonus you get on archmage when you stack mana is fine for skills that need to keep getting re-cast, but too good on skills that can be refreshed and kept going for the full duration of an encounter once you cast the first time.

I will actually be surprised if what I said in my first post isn't the "fix" to the skill - that it gives a short global buff to active skills once it is cast from skills that it is linked in.

I have seen life builds face tanking sirus a8 die beam
I have seen ES builds face tanking sirus a8 die beam
I have NOT seen Mana builds face tanking sirus a8 die beam.

Maybe to compensate mana users, GGG purposely made it attractive for users to play mana builds by sacrificing EHP for DPS?

"

pr13st wrote:

Yea, don't nerf archmage!
I barely did everything in the game with LL storm brand archmage and will do it next league with OOS or arc or blade vortex or ball lightning archmage because I like playing on easy mode.

If life/es based builds can do the VERY EASY MODE of facetanking everything especially against sirus a8 die beam while dealing shitloads of damage, then why can't archmage users be deprived of the fun ?