Can we stop pretending that Path of Exile is free to play?
" Nah, if you think it is its because you've never played something thats actually p2win :p |
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" This got distorted from the original argument where one poster said you absolutely need to buy more stash tab and another one categorically said you do not have to. I just gave real life example of how my currency situation looks like in a league. It is also much more than just currency that hogs space in stash tabs--and I fully blame GGG for this situation but I also realize F2P game need certain mechanics that incentivize purchase of microtransactions to make $. I can trade up currency but there are 3 major problems with it: 1) I hate trading and I keep it to a minimum, 2) You might potentially lose lots of currency by trading up and later trading down due to everyone trying to sell high and buy low and 3) this will cost you a lot of time not playing the game. I absolutely trade up for certain currencies via in-game NPCs, eg. jewelers to fusings several times per league as currency tab can only hold 5000 of each. I admit I'm a hoarder in PoE because I can afford it due to having 50 stash tabs. However, since I spend so much time in this game I'm not willing to compromise my experience by restricting myself by stash tabs. I believe that anyone serious about this game should be able to spend $30-40 to get few key specialized tabs and few premium or normal stash tabs to make their experience much better. It is one of the best things you can spend money in this game. |
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Agree with OP, rates and stash are too targeted into that direction, it is definitely more expensive than buying a 35 wolcen
I found out the stash limit is definitely targeted when i tried poe on ps4 and there once i started mapping and getting a messy stash i did some math and said oh no im not going to dump another 60$ minimum just to have a stash that allows me to get into final ocntent. I had my fun, i spent the amount of 10-20 wolcens/GDs/LEs/Chaosbanes, for every single upgrade i probably farmed total rng crap for the time amount of 2-3 of wolcens. I am actually happy that wolcen got only a handful of hours to reach the limit instead of making me waste a thousand++ Gives streamers & friends queue priority and leaves supporters who spent hundreds $ packs in the 100k queue. GGG: Don't you guys follow streamers? Last edited by ZaeN#4962 on Feb 20, 2020, 5:57:18 AM
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Buying a currency tab is pay2win.
if i have 4 tabs that don't stack currency, and i got 2 stacks of 20 chromes, i need to waste time calculating how many chromes i got. i need to google how much 2 * 20 are, or the very least, use a calculator. when you buy a currency tab, it does the hard arithmetic task for you, so you got a lot more spare time to kill Sirus. ergo, currency tab is pay2win. |
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If you consider that pay2win. Then it's also pay 2 win, becuz you need to buy internet and without internet you cant play poe. So poe is p2win
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" Totally bullshyt, I've played alot this leaugue, and I have spend 2 times 20 bucks on this game, 1 of spend half on MTX. So I spend 30 euro on stash tabs. I have 10 stash tabs and a currency and a map. It's all you ever need. I have thought about the other tab and or more tabs alot of times. Especially this league as I played alot...but it wont help me anything....so I decided not to... People who think p2win should think of this....buying a stash tab will indeed help you to kill the awakener faster....so purely watching this point then it is pay2win.... But how much faster are we talking about here? Lets say with equal luck it will be doable in 100 hours (totally random number here) and with tabs you can do it in about 80-90 hours.... In a normal f2p but also p2win mmo....you can just spend 5000 euro instantly and become the strongest player out there being able to kill awakener in about 10 hours.......this is simple not doable in path of exile, even if you spend a 10000000000 euro on this game, its still 80-90 hours..... In fact I'm willingly to bet that I'm WAY more effective with 10 stash tabs + currency/maps then any1 else is with every single tab and having 50 tabs.....it can never be organized as good that you know exactly where to search....I see the streamers spend countless minutes searching for the item they know they have...which never happens becuz i know every single item in my 12 stash tabs... |
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" This is my estimate on how much you need/should spend on tabs. This will definitely give you the most important basics that will allow you to efficiently and conveniently play the game. I have a lot more stash tabs than that necessary maximum since stash tabs were the only thing I was willing to buy early on. I can afford to be a hoarder nowdays. If you plan to play PoE for longer than 100 hours, you deserve to buy yourself few stash tabs. It will make your experience much better without breaking your bank |
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" The problem is that you listed a ton of personal things. For example, somebody without any money to spend on the game is going to be a lot more willing to trade up currency because under his conditions thats a very relevant "win scenario". He might also experience spending time on utilizing his four stash tabs to their maximum potential not as a detriment to his experience but as an "ingenious way" to further his in-game goals. These are all personal factors that change the way you experience the game as an individual. It seems fallacious to project your own standards onto people outside of your personal experience without granting a reasonable amount of room for error when doing so. And this is what this thread revolves around, people not utilizing the definitions propperly and then projecting personal missgivings or "win conditions" onto those poor definitions to justify their position. People can get rid of those attitudes by disconnecting their personal experiences from this discussion and simply look at the definitions of "p2w","f2p" and then look what the game objectively demands. As far as i can tell the game offers two distinct win conditions. 1) finishing the story line 2) reaching lvl 100 Beyond those two i consider them inventions of the community or "arbitrary win conditions". Both of those goals are achievable without spending any money. Objectively speaking this puts PoE in the "f2p" category and allows it to utilize the label that it has "no p2w features". Again, this doesn't argue about the experience itself, which might be relatively unpleasant when compared to somebody with more stash space. That's an argument that could be made, but not to undermine the propposition that the game is not "f2p" or has "p2w features". The OP started out a poor thread by not utilizing his definitions propperly and formulating a poor thought out strawman, it would have been far more interesting for example if he created a new term "p4convenience" then definted it propperly and allowed the discussion to start from this newly formed term. Like others have already pointed out, it would be incredibly hard to argue PoE has no pay elements that substantially differentiate the experience of the game itself in comparison to people that do not spend any money. I think it would be a fool's errand to argue such a position. Peace, -Boem- Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
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" Didnt read your entire post...but some of it doesnt really go all the way... I played p2win games, and killed the "sirus" in that game with spending 0 euro.....it just takes like 20 times more time.....pve games normally have p2win in terms of time needed to kill end boss. It can be done without money, but spending lots will increase the time needed SIGNIFICANTLY. Where in poe it doesnt, it increases just like 10% or much less |
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" I clearly used my personal experience to illustrate my points. I do not pretend to have any objective or statistically backed view on the topic. I'm not really sure you argue for or against the notion made by OP that PoE is free to play game. I, despite, my personal experience still believe PoE is a free to play game. My indulgence in stash tabs does not change my view that the game is free to play, be it first moment you start it or 1000 hours later. I also believe that any entertainment source, which can provide fun for several 100s, or in my case 1000s, hours is worth some $ to spend on it to make the experience as good as it possibly be. |
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