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DarthSki44 wrote:
The concern over gear progression and ease of acquisition is outdated.
Far from outdated. Maybe outdated for you, because as you say, you don't loot items. People being OK with that state? Of COURSE they long for an AH. Tell me, WHY aren't you looting items?
Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
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Posted byPhrazz#3529on Feb 12, 2020, 6:40:42 PM
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Phrazz wrote:
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DarthSki44 wrote:
The concern over gear progression and ease of acquisition is outdated.
Far from outdated. Maybe outdated for you, because as you say, you don't loot items. People being OK with that state? Of COURSE they long for an AH. Tell me, WHY aren't you looting items?
Because alt spam, influence exalted orbs/awakener orbs, and crafting are far better. This is not even remotely under debate if we are having an honest conversation.
Sure I might loot some rings / amulets / belts / Two Stoned Boots, and decent ilvl bases for alch rolls, but that's it.
And progression itself is certainly outdated due to power creep. You can use a tabula, goldrim, wanderlust, meginords, some rando weapons, and basically make it to maps.
Personal choice, and choosing to gimp yourself doesn't invalidate my points at all. If you want to not use a filter, and pickup everything, you do you. I think thats the minority of people, but to be fair, thats just my opinion.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44#6905 on Feb 12, 2020, 7:18:54 PM
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Posted byDarthSki44#6905on Feb 12, 2020, 7:18:34 PMOn Probation
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Deathfairy wrote:
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Bleu42 wrote:
@Deathfairy
This is all assuming the AH works the way some would like it to, such as buyouts are instant. However, we have proof this isn't the case. Go look up the AH they put into the Asian version. When you want to buy an item, it sends a message to the seller who gets a popup, who then has to accept / deny, or can ignore it.
This means that price fixing will exist, and waiting for the seller to answer, the 'afk problem', will still also exist.
Now of course I'm citing footage from awhile ago, but it sets a precedent for how an AH would be implemented from GGG.
Fair enough, didnt know that. But people who ask for ah are asking for different one as far as i understand.
Oh absolutely, I'd be willing to bet most people who think of an AH assume it would be instant buyouts.
I also should have pointed out that I agree with most of what you posted. Even all the smaller points aside, I believe the one giant, inherent problem that *cannot* be fixed if an AH would be introduced is the destruction of the reward loop of the game. It's already too easy to level to endgame, pop open trade and grab yourself all the basics needed to get into red maps.
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Posted byBleu42#4018on Feb 12, 2020, 10:08:44 PM
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DarthSki44 wrote:
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Phrazz wrote:
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DarthSki44 wrote:
The concern over gear progression and ease of acquisition is outdated.
Far from outdated. Maybe outdated for you, because as you say, you don't loot items. People being OK with that state? Of COURSE they long for an AH. Tell me, WHY aren't you looting items?
Because alt spam, influence exalted orbs/awakener orbs, and crafting are far better. This is not even remotely under debate if we are having an honest conversation.
Sure I might loot some rings / amulets / belts / Two Stoned Boots, and decent ilvl bases for alch rolls, but that's it.
And progression itself is certainly outdated due to power creep. You can use a tabula, goldrim, wanderlust, meginords, some rando weapons, and basically make it to maps.
Personal choice, and choosing to gimp yourself doesn't invalidate my points at all. If you want to not use a filter, and pickup everything, you do you. I think thats the minority of people, but to be fair, thats just my opinion.
And pray tell, HOW do you afford to 'alt spam, influence ex orb / awakener orb and craft'?
Because if you aren't trading for all those currencies to craft with, you'd HAVE to loot items.
Once again, proving how trade always has and will continue to degrade any sort of actual progression.
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Posted byBleu42#4018on Feb 12, 2020, 10:11:34 PM
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Shagsbeard wrote:
It would change it at all levels and the game that resulted wouldn't last a month.
Shags, you know this already IS the game for many people.
Hit maps, trade for mid tier items. Then continue on, build currency, trade for better items or trade for crafting mats.
Everything you fear already exists. It just exists in a very annoying format, for no reason.
They may as well implement an AH and then make you hit the letter F about 2000 times by hand before you can open it. Thats essentially what they have done.
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Posted bytrixxar#2360on Feb 13, 2020, 12:25:05 AM
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Deathfairy wrote:
The pit falls of AH have been pointed out, they happened in every other game with AH, every other game with AH either failed
Name a single one aside from D3. Your ONE example. I listed eight. You can disagree with the similarity, but they had AH, none failed.
D3 even works against you. They had an AH, then took it out. You think it failed? You think D3 is an example of a game failing?
"The game set a new record for "fastest-selling PC game" by selling over 3.5 million copies in the first 24 hours of its release, and became the best-selling PC game of 2012 by selling over 12 million copies. As of August 2015, the number of sales had grown to over 30 million."
D3 destroys your argument against trying an AH, it was immensely more successful than PoE.
Last edited by trixxar#2360 on Feb 13, 2020, 12:34:28 AM
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Posted bytrixxar#2360on Feb 13, 2020, 12:27:18 AM
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trixxar wrote:
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Deathfairy wrote:
The pit falls of AH have been pointed out, they happened in every other game with AH, every other game with AH either failed
Name a single one aside from D3. Your ONE example. I listed eight. You can disagree with the similarity, but they had AH, none failed.
D3 even works against you. They had an AH, then took it out. You think it failed? You think D3 is an example of a game failing?
"The game set a new record for "fastest-selling PC game" by selling over 3.5 million copies in the first 24 hours of its release, and became the best-selling PC game of 2012 by selling over 12 million copies. As of August 2015, the number of sales had grown to over 30 million."
D3 destroys your argument against trying an AH, it was immensely more successful than PoE.
D3 AH is not only the most similar game, it is also the only one that didnt have forced restrictions. You can have an AH but then you either need limiters like BoE, BoP, time gating, lower droprates. pick your poison.
all your examples have gotten around the problem in one of these ways. me and many others do not want these restrictions and prefers GGGs way of solving the problem
Nobody thinks D3 didnt make profit. most of us probably bought it and im sure it made a ton of money. but alot of that was due to the fact that it was the follow up to diablo 2 and blizzards reputation for making good games, there was soo much hype. D3 was a huge failure with that in mind, they got heavily criticized, had to make huge changes to the game and alot of players left and didnt come back and blizzards support of it since the expansion launch have been very bare minimum
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Posted byNidal#2459on Feb 13, 2020, 1:50:01 AM
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DarthSki44 wrote:
Because alt spam, influence exalted orbs/awakener orbs, and crafting are far better. This is not even remotely under debate if we are having an honest conversation.
...And no one is debating that.
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And progression itself is certainly outdated due to power creep. You can use a tabula, goldrim, wanderlust, meginords, some rando weapons, and basically make it to maps.
...And I'm sure you always drop a Tabula, Goldrim, Wanderlust and Meginords every single first playthrough each league. Not everyone is that lucky, you know - and have to rely on drops up to a certain point. No everyone is lucky enough to drop enough currency to buy those either, up to a certain point.
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Personal choice, and choosing to gimp yourself doesn't invalidate my points at all. If you want to not use a filter, and pickup everything, you do you. I think thats the minority of people, but to be fair, thats just my opinion.
...And no one is debating to "not use filters" either. It seems like you have your own debate without reading what other people are saying. And if "not hitting the market the moment you can afford a Tabula" or whatever is "gimping yourself", you're kind of proving my point.
Look, crafting - at a certain point in the game, as well as trading WILL always be more powerful, more efficient and better than relying on drops. It's the "road there" we're talking about. You know, not seeing everything from a "I have everything"-perspective or from an endgame perspective. That's the main progression in the game.
Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
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Posted byPhrazz#3529on Feb 13, 2020, 1:50:40 AM
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DarthSki44 wrote:
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Shagsbeard wrote:
It would change it at all levels and the game that resulted wouldn't last a month.
There is a 0% chance you know that.
At best it's a guess from you, and in truth from GGG.
The concern over gear progression and ease of acquisition is outdated. We have come a long way from trade chat and forum stores.
I personally think pride & stubbornness is getting in the way of progress. Making yourself scared of the unknown is no way to go through life.
in theory it makes sense, make it easy and quick and more things goes on the market, pushing prices down and saturating demand. in practice the closest thing to PoE tried it and had exactly the expected issues
and ALL other attempts at AH recognizes the issues and makes it work using trade restrictions. introducing an AH would fundamentally change large parts of the game, but you are welcome to try and explain why it wouldnt and how all these other AHs dont actually need BoP or BoE restrictions
PoE is the one example of completely free trade, you can buy something, use it, sell it again and make your currency back depending on the supply and demand of that item and the currency used to buy it
thats alot more engaging that buying something and the second you equip its not worth anything anymore
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Posted byNidal#2459on Feb 13, 2020, 2:11:15 AM
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Phrazz wrote:
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jtggm1985 wrote:
I tend to agree with Trixxar here that gating it by frustration is the wrong way to go, as are most people who want trade changes, in my experience. As I said I didn't want this to turn into another trade debate thread (and it did in a big way) but the simplest way to gate it by a non-frustration point is through the gameplay itself. limit it based on bosses killed or maps run. They have the tech to do it, and it wouldn't require a huge shift in drop rates since most people who pick up the game never make it past hillock.
I feel the current system is more gated behind knowledge and learning, than it is gated behind frustration. I've traded more this league than I ever have, and can count on one finger the times I've been frustrated. There's just so much you can do "eliminate" or "mitigate" the so-called frustrations. But me not being frustrated, might come from me being OK with the fact that everything/everyone isn't available when I WANT it/them to be.
The main point, though: The current system has no "hard cap" set by GGG. The market is player-driven, without any "hard limitations". Most "soft limitations" come from people not playing the game ATM, or too busy playing to value trade over gameplay. I don't necessarily see that as a negative. And I think A LOT of players value this freedom over forced "hard cap/limitations", even though some might see it as "frustrating".
Of course, there are three things GGG should've done a long time ago to make trade... Better (IMO):
1) The public API should've been removed the moment GGG made their own trading site.
2) Live searches should not be possible. Not even close. Ever.
3) After removing live searches and the public API: Move the damn system in-game.
Those three steps would GREATLY improve trade in my opinion. After that, they could start experimenting with a direct, on-the-fly-while-playing "accept/decline" system when people sent you trade requests.
Agree on points 1-3,but there's further issues compounding it. Namely api lag, api bugs, price fixers, bots, and the human nature to be a prick to others. And it's not so much that those who want a instant buyout actually want it instantly, they want to mitigate api bugs/lag/people not responding at all.
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Posted byjtggm1985#3694on Feb 13, 2020, 2:29:46 AM
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