PoE 2 servers are restarting in: .
They should be back up in approximately .GDC Talk - "Cursed Problems in Game Design"
" i like ideas like this. not this in particular, but i think this is the direction GGG need to work in; a trading system chained to the RPG aspects of the game that doesn't break the immersion of the game making players alt-tabbing the game or dealing with 100 user interface & statistics or dealing with an AH by another user interface, instead of a real in-game location fot the debated AH. most of the people debating here treat PoE like a second job, sacrificing the gaming aspect for the sake of efficency. i don't mind a bad and obnoxious trade system if it is tied to the rpg element of this game. damn, if it were for me i will make the in-game filter system also an rpg element tied to the game, instead of delegating it to another user interface in the option. you guys are frying air, trade will regulate itself whatever choice GGG will make. i personally will be satisfied only if they make it so it doesn't brake immersion & rpg aspects. Last edited by Sol_Starving#2921 on Feb 13, 2020, 2:42:42 AM
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Well, you can perhaps work around the problem by introduce special items, that are not tradeable (soul- or accountbind). Like Legendary items with a long quest series for example.
I would more fun for me to have something unique, that I worked for, and that I see some kind or progress to. Now, I just can buy everything, when I found other things, that other players want. I can buy staff from bosses, that I don't have killed, or even have seen. I kill endbosses not for special drops that I what, I hope for currency to buy staff I need (or hope for valuable drops I can transport into currency). I realy miss the feeling from WOW then something unique drop for me personally, or from finally after a long time getting the Legendary items that I (with the guild) had worked for. "The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried." - Stephen McCranie Last edited by juyevon#0958 on Feb 13, 2020, 4:12:21 AM
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Thats because PoE actually has an economy. You might not find what you need but someone else might and you trade. Introducing guaranteed high end legendaries for certain builds would devalue anything found or crafted of lesser or equal strenght (and if not strong then whats the point)
Just like the AH this is probably preferable to some. Its consequenses you will find acceptable just like an AH but items being BoE. But youre in the wrong game, it wouldnt be fair to change the game to appease one part of the fanbase and alienate the other part that really enjoy the way it is and have been from the start (actually harder) |
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I think this thread would benefit from someone knowledgeable compiling a brief summary or overview of the different ARPG/MMO trading/'auction house' systems out there i.e. that've been used by other games - how they worked, in terms of both finding items and the buy/sell interaction itself, what restrictions they had (if any), if the game imposes any kind of cost or 'tax' for trading, any major complaints players of those games had of their trading system, etc.
So far we only ever compare PoE with D3, but there's other games out there that have done trade. So maybe we can all try looking at them and discussing if any of them sound like acceptable ideas for PoE. Basically, instead of constantly asking whether PoE should have trade (which it already does, and which has been argued to death), how about spending some time comparing options for how that trade could be? Then, with a more concrete idea of what the new system might look like, we can return to the question of whether it's a good idea or not. Unfortunately, I don't know enough other trade systems to do this. Anyone else up for it? Last edited by Exile009#1139 on Feb 13, 2020, 6:15:00 AM
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" Very few (if none at all?) are discussing if PoE should have trade at all. Trade is here to stay, and for "most" people, trade is a wanted feature. What we ARE discussing, is how this trade feature should work. Some will implement an AH without limitations, some want to keep - but improve the system we have now, while others want a new system with different limitation than the current system The current system is gated behind people not responding (be that AFK, offline, too busy etc). Forcing people to be online and active to trade, does in practice cut off 1/4-1/3 of the market, reducing the available items out there. The benefits? The system is totally open, you can trade as much as you want and the whole economy is player driven. A lot of people agree that trade needs some sort of limitations. So "what works in other games" isn't the most important question. A better question would be "what kinds of restrictions/limitations would PoE players be OK with". Comparing apples (traditional MMO's) to oranges (PoE) won't get us anywhere. Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
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The current system is not gated behind people not responding, being afk or offline, if its desirable and priced right it gets sold when that player is available.
its gated by how hard it is to estimare the value of your item, tradefilter tells you something good dropped but how good? is it 1c, 2c or 1ex. lots of the time we arent sure but put it in the stash for later(never :P ) An AH simply lets you put that item up, no buyout and you can just wait and see how much you get, no reason to not put it there. or just put it up because its quick and easy and you dont have to deal with the actual sale PoEs system in my opinion is the lesser evil. the market is free, unrestricted, you can use and resell and if youre interested learn more to find out whats valuable and whats not and make profit adding a lot of depth to the game while still not being necessary (im bad at evaluating prices, too casual) Others might prefer restrictions and limitations but there are plenty of games like that already but here they are and they might just be enjoying a real functioning economy more than they think So i pick the other option lots of us dont want to see any change at all and trade is fine already |
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" Before speaking about trade we should speak about the "game cycles": 1- Kill things or do quests ===> Accumulate wealth ===> Buy better gear ===> repeat. This is the most common for MMOS. 2- Kill things ===> Drop better gear ===> Repeat This is the most common for ARPGs Interesting enough PoE changed into an ARPG that favors 1 a lot more than 2. This happened because of the evolution of crafting where 99% of the times dropped gear can`t compete wit crafted ones (because of unique affixes from crafting). The only rare items that can drop and be awesome are influenced ones, but their drop rate is so abysmal that the chance of one dropping with good affix combinations is lottery winning level of RNG. With this is mind, PoE is not really about dropping good gear, it`s about accumulating currency to craft/buy the good gear, which as i said make it closer to an MMO than to an ARPG. This means that our trading is also closer to an MMO than to a regular ARPG. And the trade choice of the majority of MMOs is indeed an AH, in most cases with defined rules to mitigate whatever downside it may have, and in the majority of cases those restrictions are there more to limit bots than being there due to any actual game design "flaw". You can successfully compare PoE crafting to any MMO "upgrade" system where you have to gamble with your item to make it stronger and each time you fail you have to grind more wealthy to try again. And that`s why MMOs have an AH, because what should limit players is not the access to items in a market, but the actual currency they have. That`s also the flaw of most MMOs, the fact that over time there is going to be too much currency in the system and the market will inflate itself too much. Interesting enough PoE does not suffer from that because of our "3 month schedule" resets (outside of standard) and the fact that there is no "gold" currency in the game. To conclude i still believe that no matter what choice they do regarding trade, it should at least be completely moved to inside the game (removing the Trade API completely). |
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" But on the other hand - https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Why_we_hate_being_called_an_MMORPG |
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" Well the only part that interest us here is: " Which doesn't invalidate anything that i said, logically speaking you would even think that a game with deterministic gear has even less room for an AH than a game with "lotto style" gear. The more variance there is in the outcomes of gear the less likely it is for you to be able to get the result you need for yourself, this just exacerbate the "necessity" to trade for it. |
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" I am not sure what MMOs did you play, but ones i did: wow, rift, starwars. That is not how it worked to put it mildly. So unless you clarify this part the rest of your post is 100 percent moot. |
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