They need to stop with the band aids, and start resolving the real problems MELEE has - like simply the existence of Cyclone, FLicker Strike, Consecrated Path as damaging skills that also move you to the damn enemy or the need for a working targeting system - as we all know they should have done this a long, long time ago...
They are so incompetent they can't even address off screening and we still hope they will "improve melee"???
Please, let's be real...
I see that you also are still waiting on GGG to address melee's targeting problem with a real solution instead of putting a bandaid on it and calling it fixed.
Multistrike was the first bandaid
Ancestral Call was the second bandaid
I can't wait for the third bandaid.
It is funny how no other ARPG have the melee targeting problem but this game somehow has it. Something like that should have been fixed in Alpha or in Closed Beta. Shame...oh well more time to practice throwing those rags.
Also they ain't never going to address off screening. They can't even make a enemy mechanic that actually challenges ranged combat (well there is proxy shield and...well that other one...proxy shield plus? yeah that sounds about right).
Well, third bandaid is having "Awakened Multistrike Plus" & the damn Tribal Fury ammy implicit...
On a more serious note, without properly addressing off screening, they can't even attempt talking about melee, not to even mention REAL MELEE, as having it's purpose in PoE... So they need to "git gud & up to snuff" and properly address this "melee conundrum", or simply remove this "faux playstyle" from the game (or better yet, highlight it as the OFFICIAL "HARD MODE ON" setting)...
And I so looked forward to another new comment regarding the "coming of the Eagles"... Next time maybe... ^^
I completely forgot about Tribal Furry?...Fury? Furniture? it don't matter it is still GGG failing at fixing targeting.
Honestly off screening can wait until they fix melee's targeting. If a melee player is struggling to hit things and needs 2 supports just to hit things properly (and miraculously still having issues with targeting despite the bandaids) then GGG has not even come close to solving the "Riddle of Melee" (It starts with targeting). I will never understand how GGG keeps missing this concept. I hope they will actually fix it but I no faith in them to do so (we are this far into the "life" of the game and they still have to fix targeting. That is an issue for a game in its alpha state or a closed beta.).
Also I am trying to steer away from the Eagle comments. I do not want to end up with the whole: "removed by...." just for a joke.
Spoiler
fuck it....
GGG: close enough to eagles
oh well we can always just:
It looks like GGG has already done so or they are at least practicing throwing those rags until they can throw the damn towel.
Still failing to solve "The Riddle of Melee" 4.0 HYPE!!!
SILLY BITCH...THE EAGLES ARE COMING!!!
THE EAGLES!!! (bleeds out from a wound to the gut)
the eagles...are...coming...(coughs)...the eagles...
Last edited by bionicg2040#4104 on Dec 13, 2019, 9:18:25 PM
Melee is supposed to get to a boss in an "adequate" amount of time, with higher chance of survivability versus whatever seas of enemies the game throws at you, and also succeed in a fight versus a really dangerous enemy (a boss if you will), by either having "MOAR DAMAGE" or "MOAR TANKINESS" as opposed to a damn ranged/AoE build that "nukes" at least the entire visible screen with a single click - those "nukes" need to become tiny pebbles in effect to have the REAL MELEE hits connect and feel IMPACTFUL...
Hitting a damn monster in a <16 radius should grant triple/quadruple damage with the said "point blank hit" compared to the current "wet noodle" effect, and also be limited to REAL MELEE = melee hit in a <16 radius.
Make hits in up to a 36-40 radius hit for 100% of current damage, then have a drop off damage of 2.5% per 2 radius with an even harsher reduction of 5% for anything above 75 radius... Suddenly the focus on what you see means you actually do KILL IT, and make ranged/AoE builds stop double dipping damage and safety at the same time.
It's not rocket science, and can, and should have been implemented in PoE since 1.0.0...
Alas, you will never have "proper" melee clear as fast as ranged/AoE based playstyles without BALANCING player damage vs enemy EHP pool vs distance the enemy has from your char.
And it might not even be the point to make melee be as efficient as ranged/AoE playstyles on clearing, but making it TANKY enough and/or POWERFUL enough IS A DAMN MUST, if you want to grant REAL MELEE a DAMN PURPOSE...
We have all seen the easy way out chosen by TencentGGG with spells slapped with a "melee tag", and actually I'm fine with a removal of NAMELOCKING MELEE ENTIRELY, as long as they are so incompetent and lack the solutions to the problems of balance, and the technical aspects that REAL MELEE has in PoE, but please, they need to be open about it, declare it "dead" and transform it properly into "projectile/AoE spells/attacks with melee tag for scaling"...
Either will do fine, but not solving this damn conundrum after these years simply shows they are inept in their endeavors regarding the "melee playstyle"...
You said nope and then repeated my text so I'm not sure where you actually stand on the issue. Gggs ineptitude is exactly the issue - they can't balance the "real" melee skills sensibly so the only solution is to make all melee be the new spell-ish melee you are describing. The problem is they aren't fixing the old skills.
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
-----
Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it.
Last edited by Legatus1982#1658 on Dec 13, 2019, 9:11:26 AM
But that's exactly the point though. Melee versus ranged always faces the same issue in every game, they aren't SUPPOSED to excel at the same content, they usually got content tailored for their archetype which is especially viable for them to run... and not very much so for the others.
In PoE we don't have that, ranged excels at EVERY content, leaving Melee in the dust.
Hence we need to give Melee a proper niche which they are vastly superior compared to a TS-char or a summoner for example, bossing is one of those which can work. Giving them strong defensive measures and a type of content where those are needed to succeed beyond the 'base' in conjunction would already make them viable for SOMETHING.
That's what I wrote about already in the forum. Ranged skills being very bad at killing bosses versus Melee being very bad at clearing a map. Hence the implementation can be to ranged chars excel in farming up currency and 'common' gear, namely rare-drops. In comparison melee can go for bosses and get very specific gear or special drops. Some of the archetypes (like Summoner) can combine those and be basically worse at every part but not care about the type of content they run... never excelling in one or the other though.
That's a type of proper balance, one of many solutions.
It's not necessarily melee which needs to change (although there are some things very important to deal with) but it's the game which has to change to support melee-chars properly. Which means options ONLY available for point-blank melee-skills. Defensive measures which don't work if you got a wand or bow, removal of the ability for wand-users to use a shield again (because that change was fairly dumb for balance).
But again, ggg is neither capable nor willing to drastically alter the content of the game to accommodate these ideas.
You don't have to take my word for it. Just look at the history of melee: the only good melee skills were ones that clear screens and/ or move while attacking. Double strike was made insanely overpowered at killing single monsters and nobody used it. The evidence is clear.
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
-----
Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it.
Last edited by Legatus1982#1658 on Dec 13, 2019, 9:16:46 AM
Melee is supposed to get to a boss in an "adequate" amount of time, with higher chance of survivability versus whatever seas of enemies the game throws at you, and also succeed in a fight versus a really dangerous enemy (a boss if you will), by either having "MOAR DAMAGE" or "MOAR TANKINESS" as opposed to a damn ranged/AoE build that "nukes" at least the entire visible screen with a single click - those "nukes" need to become tiny pebbles in effect to have the REAL MELEE hits connect and feel IMPACTFUL...
Hitting a damn monster in a <16 radius should grant triple/quadruple damage with the said "point blank hit" compared to the current "wet noodle" effect, and also be limited to REAL MELEE = melee hit in a <16 radius.
Make hits in up to a 36-40 radius hit for 100% of current damage, then have a drop off damage of 2.5% per 2 radius with an even harsher reduction of 5% for anything above 75 radius... Suddenly the focus on what you see means you actually do KILL IT, and make ranged/AoE builds stop double dipping damage and safety at the same time.
It's not rocket science, and can, and should have been implemented in PoE since 1.0.0...
Alas, you will never have "proper" melee clear as fast as ranged/AoE based playstyles without BALANCING player damage vs enemy EHP pool vs distance the enemy has from your char.
And it might not even be the point to make melee be as efficient as ranged/AoE playstyles on clearing, but making it TANKY enough and/or POWERFUL enough IS A DAMN MUST, if you want to grant REAL MELEE a DAMN PURPOSE...
We have all seen the easy way out chosen by TencentGGG with spells slapped with a "melee tag", and actually I'm fine with a removal of NAMELOCKING MELEE ENTIRELY, as long as they are so incompetent and lack the solutions to the problems of balance, and the technical aspects that REAL MELEE has in PoE, but please, they need to be open about it, declare it "dead" and transform it properly into "projectile/AoE spells/attacks with melee tag for scaling"...
Either will do fine, but not solving this damn conundrum after these years simply shows they are inept in their endeavors regarding the "melee playstyle"...
You said nope and then repeated my text so I'm not sure where you actually stand on the issue. Gggs ineptitude is exactly the issue - they can't balance the "real" melee skills sensibly so the only solution is to make all melee be the new spell-ish melee you are describing. The problem is they aren't fixing the old skills.
We kinda stand on the same side, but let me simply say: "WRONG".
TencentGGG's ineptitude appears when you see them not taking a damn stance - they either need to make melee, and I really mean "REAL MELEE", RELEVANT and HAVE a damn PURPOSE, or they can simply REMOVE IT ENTIRELY.
It's that simple.
Either choice will do (and I would soooo prefer the first one, but I also prefer REAL BALANCE in an ARPG), and it's up to them to "git gud & up so snuff"...
The old skills would also be made tolerable by REAL % number increases, like 50% and higher if we talk about a damn "buff", and no, they should for once spec RT and compare the damn damage versus Crit/EO, and comprehend once and for all that they can't have additive and multiplicative scaling in the game if they DON'T ACTUALLY BALANCE FOR IT.
As I asked quite a number of times before, show me the number of players that relied on a damn dual wielding RT REAL MELEE build to finish all the end game content AND reach 100 (bonus points for HC/SSF HC) versus everyone else that EXPLOITS the damn FOTM item/skill/mechanics and/or interactions...
It should be clear that TencentGGG's "balance team" never went that way and put in the effort to comprehend where the damn bottom is, what it means, and compare it to ANYTHING better, up to you know, their asinine "pick this and auto-win by default" options.
"Choice is an illusion, Exile..." was never more true, and disheartening...
PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"...
Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days...
Last edited by sofocle10000#6408 on Dec 13, 2019, 2:29:08 PM
We kinda stand on the same side, but let me simply say: "WRONG".
TencentGGG's ineptitude appears when you see them not taking a damn stance - they either need to make melee, and I really mean "REAL MELEE", RELEVANT and HAVE a damn PURPOSE, or they can simply REMOVE IT ENTIRELY.
It's that simple.
Either choice will do (and I would soooo prefer the first one, but I also prefer REAL BALANCE in an ARPG), and it's up to them to "git gud & up so snuff"...
The old skills would also be made tolerable by REAL % number increases, like 50% and higher if we talk about a damn "buff", and no, they should for once spec RT and compare the damn damage versus Crit/EO, and comprehend once and for all that they can't have additive and multiplicative scaling in the game if they DON'T ACTUALLY BALANCE FOR IT.
As I asked quite a number of times before, show me the number of players that relied on a damn dual wielding RT REAL MELEE build to finish all the end game content AND reach 100 (bonus points for HC/SSF HC) versus everyone else that EXPLOITS the damn FOTM item/skill/mechanics and/or interactions...
It should be clear that TencentGGG's "balance team" never went that way and put in the effort to comprehend where the damn bottom is, what it means, and compare it to ANYTHING better, up to you know, their asinine "pick this and auto-win by default" options.
"Choice is an illusion, Exile..." was never more true, and disheartening...
The ineptitude isn't really relevant in terms of how or why it's happening, the fact is it's been happening for years. If they had plans to drastically alter the game to fix melee they'd do it. They have had tons of melee patches and they aren't. So the logical conclusion is that it will never happen.
Give melee the aoe it needs.
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
-----
Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it.
Well I dont understand that we were given a melee rebalance in June. They hyped it for months leading up to the big rebalance. And 5 months later they nerf it right back to where it was in Dec 2018.
Why even bother with the melee changes and rebalancing only to destroy it with a nerf league.
I think I skip the league. There is no way I can make shit at least SOMEWHAT work this time.
And in Dec 2018 melee was much much better than now cause it had at least abyss jewels, 80% loreweave, 2 socket tombfist, 16% weapon ele penetration craft, the MoM mana wheel etc. With all that stuff you could make every melee gem work and ssf players had realistic changes to make a million dps sunder or whatever with 10k ehp 80% all res without needing crit gear or a crit skilltree or even a good weapon.
I had quite some fun with melee back then. Now I am at "fuck this shit" after playing 2 acts.
I'm a bit annoyed that they nerfed Fortify instead of tuning it more toward melee so that ranged builds can no longer abuse it--easy solution is to make it so it can't support movement skills. At least then there's an actual cost to non-melee trying to stuff it in their build.
Tired of trolls? Ignore them.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1473168
I'm a bit annoyed that they nerfed Fortify instead of tuning it more toward melee so that ranged builds can no longer abuse it--easy solution is to make it so it can't support movement skills. At least then there's an actual cost to non-melee trying to stuff it in their build.
That's because it wasn't meant to nerf ranged builds, it's to nerf delve builds.
Well I dont understand that we were given a melee rebalance in June. They hyped it for months leading up to the big rebalance. And 5 months later they nerf it right back to where it was in Dec 2018.
Why even bother with the melee changes and rebalancing only to destroy it with a nerf league.
Its even worse than that though. The best skills to use for that league were still ranged and spell builds (ED was best, ts was still better then any melee build, etc).
They just aren't even trying. All they would have to do is run a few maps on each skill gem build to realize this. But they aren't even doing that.
Melee in 2020 needs to be ice mine hammer, viper essence contagion drain, heavy tornado strike, and dual arcing strike.
Melee splash as a gem should not exist. No other class of skills requires a support just to have aoe or range.
The melee patch was good but they jyst aren't getting it. Clear speed is the sole measuring stick, if melee can't clear fast it won't be played.
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
-----
Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it.
Last edited by Legatus1982#1658 on Dec 18, 2019, 9:08:39 AM
