Failing a Blight Encounter/Map feels so much worse then just failing a Legion/Abyss/Breach

Be it cause of lacking Power/Skill or (even worse) cause of Lag/Bullshit reason, having a failed Blight Encounter feels so much worse then any other recent League mechanic.

Heres why:

- If you haven´t unlocked some Cyst at the time of failing, you dont get really anything for your time fighting. And with some Encounters lasting a minute or so, this feels just devestating.
- Even Worse in Blighted maps. Fighted for 2 mins or more? Not unlocked many or any Cyst and fail then? You most likely wasted that time of your life.

Its feels so much worse then any other Encounter of the past leagues. Cause there, every second you did fight, you got rewarded according to the time you fighted.
- Got Only half a breach? well get half a Breach loot.
- Only freeded half the Legion? Well get Half a Legion of loot
- Incursion/Abyss (okay fail it is bad but chances are good you get at least something done like killing one architect or a bunch of mobs before the abyss runs dry)


Maybe its just me, cause if i failed a Blight(ed map) the loot THAT DID drop never was anything worth the time "invested".

I know i know, its kinda a "only rewarded if you succed" thingy with Tower Defense. But man, each and every failed Encounter feels soooo so so bad... Its Soulbraking. at least for me.

Man I miss Legion so hard... =(
Yeah the Loot was overtuned for low Tier maps but damn was it a fun league...!

Your premise is correct (all-or-nothing feels worse than proportionate rewards), but do consider that this particular weakness is shared by Incursion, Abyss, Legion, and Breach far more than you acknowledge.

In addition to Betrayal, Synthesis, Delve, and even Torment. Oh, and the Labyrinth, for good measure.

It would be nice if all of the above offered rewards proportionate with the degree of player success, but let's be honest here: Designing such is much more difficult and complicated.

Even on a purely theoretical level, it's tricky. So let's do a thought experiment: How do you suppose Blight could be redesigned to give rewards based not on absolute but rather relative success?

And no, I'm not being rude or rhetorical here. I'm interested in your ideas.

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

Your premise is correct (all-or-nothing feels worse than proportionate rewards), but do consider that this particular weakness is shared by Incursion, Abyss, Legion, and Breach far more than you acknowledge.

In addition to Betrayal, Synthesis, Delve, and even Torment. Oh, and the Labyrinth, for good measure.

It would be nice if all of the above offered rewards proportionate with the degree of player success, but let's be honest here: Designing such is much more difficult and complicated.

Even on a purely theoretical level, it's tricky. So let's do a thought experiment: How do you suppose Blight could be redesigned to give rewards based not on absolute but rather relative success?

And no, I'm not being rude or rhetorical here. I'm interested in your ideas.

It is indeed tricky. Even were to begin.
I think the Core "Problem" is the "Time invested but wasted cause Factor X happend".
And this is a thing happening in pretty much any Game I ever played.

I think this isnt a bad thing per se. But it depends on the Situation.
E.g: There are Big Boss Fight, like Shaper/Elder etc. For those a 1-1 Time spent vs Reward earned would kill any real incentive.
There it is "Git Gud or Die trying" mentality. For Success theres waiting a big reward (normaly).

There im fine with it all. Lag/Bullshit causes excluded.

On the other Side we have small, comparable easy (to Big Boss fights) Encounters like Blights, Breaches, Legion etc.
Those are really common too. So failure should not be punishing but mainly feel a bit bad and encouring a player to do it better next time.
More like, not failing in "no reward", but more in like "Ah that reward was low, what can I improve in my next 10+ Encounters to increase my reward". Rather then "Git Gut or die trying" like with Boss encounters.

On Blight(s) themselve its kinda tricky to impliment.
Maybe something like when a Full Blight would spawn a total of 500 mobs with 5 spreads/ways. After killing 100 mobs total, 1 Cyst would open up (maybe the closest to the pump, then going outward). So after 20 second of the encounter there would be at least 1 cyst reward.

As a start for a Discussion?





TL:DR
Rare encounters with potentioal good rewards should have/keep a "all or nothing" mentality.
Common and easier encounters like league Mechanics should be rewarding on how GOOD it was cleared, not IF it was cleared.

One possibility they could go with is working in actual Tower Defense Waves. Like with a 5 cyst, the first wave or whatever could be 100 (20 each) and then a pause, especially on Blighted maps where there doesn't seem to be as much time to set up the towers themselves. Pause only has to be 5 seconds or so if that to at least give us a breather. Anything more than 10 seconds and it'd probably feel like "Get on with it!" though perhaps they could do UI stuff during the pause to trigger the next one.

Closest cyst first seems reasonable, and then the next wave could have growth even from that cyst so the lane can't be guaranteed to be cleared.

Oh yes, I totally miss the Waves Feature. And then followed the "Next Wave" Button.
Cause some Encounters I just wait for mobs to spawn, while in others im swarmed and fail (mainly Blighted maps).

This sort of reward Structur is kinda in place with other Mechanics.
The more Breach you clear, the more reward, the more Legion, the more reward. The more Abyss, the more reward.
In cases like Abyss the "on the way" reward is kinda low but the reward at the end is worth chasing it up.

I think its in BLight Encounters as well, but the tuning feels way of.
Its more often then not a "All or nothing" case.

And the difficulty curve is strangly fine tuned as well.
I can kill Breach Bosses when they spawn while mapping pretty quick and easy. Blight Boss? Nah, if I notice it in time I get them maybe 50/50.
Blocking there way is hard to do too when your Chara isnt tanky or relys on Dodge and Gameplay-Dodges. The later ends in the boss just running further to the pump...

I agree.

the blight maps to me feel a bit like a breach realm, although they seem more common. Some pressure to succeed so the map isn't wasted.

I also think that this isn't necessarily a problem (when server stability isn't an issue). I feel quite encouraged that the perameters for success in blight are a bit different to the normal league content, it encourages a different mindset and build requirements.

For several leagues now I've been feeling some PoE burnout and Blight has provided enough variety from what I'm used to to renew my enthusiasm.

I would however like more of a 'wave' based progression through blight maps rather than the relentless pile up of monsters, although I'm personally fine with the all or nothing rewards as long as the maps themselves are fairly accessible.

"

brushmonkey wrote:

I agree.

the blight maps to me feel a bit like a breach realm, although they seem more common. Some pressure to succeed so the map isn't wasted.

I also think that this isn't necessarily a problem (when server stability isn't an issue). I feel quite encouraged that the perameters for success in blight are a bit different to the normal league content, it encourages a different mindset and build requirements.

For several leagues now I've been feeling some PoE burnout and Blight has provided enough variety from what I'm used to to renew my enthusiasm.

I would however like more of a 'wave' based progression through blight maps rather than the relentless pile up of monsters, although I'm personally fine with the all or nothing rewards as long as the maps themselves are fairly accessible.

Thats kinda funny. Im feeling burned out in Blight.
In Legion I played more then ever before and loved almost all of it.
Every map feelt rewarding to run.
While in Blight I dont feel joy upon seeing Casia.
I know its going to be a few minutes just standing around and waiting or failing it after a minute or so due to bullshit reason.
My insane FPS of 9-10 while Blightencounters isnt helping either...
In Legion there were only Lag spike upon spawning the Legion and then after freeing them. But otherwise good FPS.

I really really miss Legion.
The nerfed (yet understandable so) Version now feels so sad compared.

"

Teigo wrote:

Thats kinda funny. Im feeling burned out in Blight.
In Legion I played more then ever before and loved almost all of it.
Every map feelt rewarding to run.
While in Blight I dont feel joy upon seeing Casia.
I know its going to be a few minutes just standing around and waiting or failing it after a minute or so due to bullshit reason.
My insane FPS of 9-10 while Blightencounters isnt helping either...
In Legion there were only Lag spike upon spawning the Legion and then after freeing them. But otherwise good FPS.

I really really miss Legion.
The nerfed (yet understandable so) Version now feels so sad compared.

HAHA!

I felt the exact opposite about legion! I gave up half way through the league because every time I found the legion pylon I felt bad...like I was being judged for my choice of build/playstyle. Like when Chris Wilson said "you're shit if you don't play fast!" (maybe not his exact words..:p)

Maybe its OK that every player doesn't enjoy every league, and if GG provide a range of ways to engage, we can just pick the bits we like and pass on the others.

My fps actually seems fine in blight since the last patch, I can even do blighted maps now.(I say 'fine', but I mean fine for PoE)

"

brushmonkey wrote:

"

Teigo wrote:

Thats kinda funny. Im feeling burned out in Blight.
In Legion I played more then ever before and loved almost all of it.
Every map feelt rewarding to run.
While in Blight I dont feel joy upon seeing Casia.
I know its going to be a few minutes just standing around and waiting or failing it after a minute or so due to bullshit reason.
My insane FPS of 9-10 while Blightencounters isnt helping either...
In Legion there were only Lag spike upon spawning the Legion and then after freeing them. But otherwise good FPS.

I really really miss Legion.
The nerfed (yet understandable so) Version now feels so sad compared.

HAHA!

I felt the exact opposite about legion! I gave up half way through the league because every time I found the legion pylon I felt bad...like I was being judged for my choice of build/playstyle. Like when Chris Wilson said "you're shit if you don't play fast!" (maybe not his exact words..:p)

Maybe its OK that every player doesn't enjoy every league, and if GG provide a range of ways to engage, we can just pick the bits we like and pass on the others.

My fps actually seems fine in blight since the last patch, I can even do blighted maps now.(I say 'fine', but I mean fine for PoE)

I think its OK too.^^

And I think if the performance would be flawless (for poe xD) my feelings about Blight would be a bit different lol

I love going fast and spamming stuff like Legions or Non.Stop Delving etc. Guess this League is just not mine =)

I liked Legion, but I was also running ED+Contagion so it was usually a cakewalk. On my Standard Pillar Juggernaut I just get sad every time I see a Legion because I know I won't be able to get much of anything from it despite being able to handle other encounters quite easily (facetanking Minotaur for example).

But that character might do pretty well in Blight since things line up so nicely for Sunder to explode them. Part of the reason I've been doing Magma Orb in Blight is it just works.