A broad P2W definition in law would paint premium stash tabs P2W

IMO on a casual level the game would be mighty unenjoyable to play without buying a premium tab, a currency and a map tab. Quite possibly also all the other special tabs, and a quad tab.

The trading tab is definitely an advantage over other players who lack one. I don't care whether player XYZ wants to stay vanilla and doesn't use it. Or whether another player ABC made mirrors with boss killing services / lab runs.

I've read such arguments in other forums as well, mostly coming from the game developers / maintainers "but some of our players can overcome this advantage without using it". Ugh, yes. And other players can't be fucked / don't have the time / don't have the skill / don't have the knowledge. So they'll spend $ instead.

IMO there is nothing wrong with spending some $ on a supporter pack to get some very needed ingame features. As far as P2W goes, it could be much much worse. But to pretend there is no P2W aspect in PoE is just wrong to me. Exactly the premium stash tab change made the game accessible and enjoyable to me.

And again, I'm sure there are exceptional players that don't need this advantage. But I'm also sure the vast majority does need it (and probably also uses it).

"

daezd wrote:

i got 4 glimmerwood loot boxes and got 4 HO decorations. worlds biggest rip off. ban loot boxes now

ik sarcasm to some extent here, AND this is off topic buuuuuut...

Have you actually placed down those HO decorations and seen what they look like? Hot damn I would be jumping with joy if I got 4 of them out of 4 boxes. The glimmerwood shit is beautiful.

More on topic:

This is a bill to ban Lootboxes / Forced P2W (E.G. in trashy mobile games that let you skip arbitrary timers with P2W currency which is always shoved in your face.), for MINORS.

Legally you have to be 18+ to play path of exile.

Even if this bill were to pass it would have 0 effect on a game that minors are not legally allowed to play.

More to the point, this thread title is misleading. This bill is not a "Broad" definition of P2W, it's a very specific definition of a type of predatory P2W which exploits the mindset of children (See regulation surrounding advertisements to children vs adults for more on this).

This thread seems to have brought out the stick which people use to beat the dead horse of "Are stash tabs P2W?" (And the answer is yes but not enough for it to ever matter, and at the end of the day GGG are a business.) But irrespective of that, the OP is just drivel.

End of topic.

I think it's funny that people try to lump in stash tabs with gambling loot boxes. I'm also annoyed at how newer gamers like to claim pay to win whenever money is involved yet fail to comprehend how it got its negative association to begin with.

Paying to win falls under real money trade type stuff, like folks spending real world money on virtual game items to bypass the grind and lockouts and so on. But what really gave it the disdain were games where progression was dictated by a paywall, particularly when an initial purchase price was already paid.

For example, dlcs have come under fire for this, like one of the Mass Effect ones that was already on disc but access was restricted without an additional purchase, with many feeling that if it was already part of the install it should have been part of the original game.

The worst offenders basically made it necessary to spend money on gearing and upgrades just to experience the normal game.

The reality is you can experience all of PoE without ever spending a penny in their shop, it's just that because these younger folks never HAD to mule that sense of entitlement... whew.

In other words, when it came to D2, people would have paid extra money for upgrading stash space. D2 had less than a full page of storage, no trade api and a heavy reliance on third party forums.

You could argue times have changed, but inconvenience serves its purpose. A player has to decide whether an item is worth picking up at all, then if its worth identifying and finally, selling. As a new player I picked up tons of junk that had POTENTIAL value but ultimately was not worth the time or effort to have bothered with at all.

Trading in chat or on the forums isn't particularly convenient, but its clearly an avenue available to those who would rather not or simply cannot pay for convenience.

And lastly, I want to emphasize convenience. All this talk about "ADVANTAGE", I can tell you as far as synthesis goes most of my tabs are empty. Having all that additional storage space means nothing when you have little motivation to play in the first place.

They don't grant additional character speed or a leveling boost. They don't increase my drop rate or magic/rarity find. Tabs don't make my character stronger or deal more damage. They're simply an optional convenience for an additional fee.

And for those who would argue white knight, I can tell you I have no plans to invest further into my account given the current league experience and how its changed since I began. I just wish people would stop abusing the usage of P2Win. I'll also add that the MMORPG I came from before this relied heavily on gambling loot boxes, as all the actual worthwhile gear was locked behind raid/ops. Aside from some mats and crafts and the occasional op deco or mount, everything else sold came from a box.

If you really want to argue tabs, you should be way more worried about things like atlas changing every league as if it was an attempt to encourage more map tab sales.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

I can tell you as far as synthesis goes most of my tabs are empty. Having all that additional storage space means nothing when you have little motivation to play in the first place.

oof, I feel you here.

First league in a long time that made me say "Fuck it i'll play standard this time."

I feel similarly, but the event has been great. Wouldn't mind the normal game being a lot closer to it.

Idk, LV80 on PS4, not slowing down yet, haven't spent a penny.
Seems pretty free to me.
2 of 4 empty stash tabs because synthesis can suck it.

Do you need Stash tabs to do any game content. Flat out answer, no, you don't.

1. Need, Verb
require (something) because it is essential or very important.

You can beat all content, in any league, in any mode without buying tabs.

Please learn what P2W means because if you did this thread wouldn't have been made.

"

Necrotekk wrote:

You can beat all content, in any league, in any mode without buying tabs.

You can beat all content in Idle Heroes without spending money.

Anytime you pay for something, be it QoL or advantages of any kind, that doesn't come with the base game, thats P2W. It might not be as egregious as RMT, or gacha games, or other forms of P2W, but buying advantages and quality of life features that other players do not have access to, for a premium, is still a form of P2W.

Almost every fremium game operates on this. Every single mobile game I have ever played, can usually be beat and/or progressed in, for free. Yet, I'm 100% positive every poster in this thread, would say most of those games, if I started listing them off, were P2W. Hell, I'd even agree.

You can do most things in PoE with 4 basic stash tabs, just like I can do most things in say, Summoners War with starter monsters. But, you really want more stash pages to enjoy the game, just like you want more monsters in Summoners War to enjoy it.

Its not a blatant, pure power form, but its P2W nonetheless. Thats just par for the course in F2p games. Its not something I will chastise GGG for, and its not something you should outright deny like a lot of people seem to want to do.