How to address the growing problem of power creep of items, and builds in PoE.

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Kulze wrote:

Yes, sure, since what you are saying is the 'one and all' and has to be true, right?

i stated facts.

facts are true.

it's what makes facts objectively better than opinions.

so... thanks for the attitude, but this ends the usual way. you're wrong.

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robmafia wrote:

literally not what he said.

literally not even similar to what he said.

ffs, he even went on about "rich and poor"

I think i interpret his saying pretty good
tell me what you think about what he said?
yea we have rich and poor bc some people are good at making money and some dont. simple

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robmafia wrote:

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Kulze wrote:

Yes, sure, since what you are saying is the 'one and all' and has to be true, right?

i stated facts.

facts are true.

it's what makes facts objectively better than opinions.

so... thanks for the attitude, but this ends the usual way. you're wrong.

You actually said I'm right here, just to leave that.

Saying your opinions - which they are - are facts means you're seeing them as the only possible right thing, therefore as the 'one and all' of it. But it's nice you've made it clear that you're simply out to say the opposite of what someone states for the sake of... well.. stating the opposite.

I still wonder, do you even have an explanation for what exactly you find bad at the power creep? Besides petty words? I'm simply curious, it would be nice to know, then someone can actually address it. You know, GGG might be a good game-developer, but they sadly aren't psychics which can read minds. It would make their job a lot easier though, that is for sure!

So, go ahead and take your time to explain your comments in detail rather then with memes and snippy comments. It would help the topic, someone probably will take their time to read through those and make a Youtube video, or someone working at GGG directly reading it.

By now all you said is 'Power creep is bad, reverse it'. Which is fine, I can understand that. You never said HOW though, you're only giving flippant remarks.

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Kulze wrote:

Saying your opinions - which they are

WRONG.

i said:

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literally not what he said.

literally not even similar to what he said.

ffs, he even went on about "rich and poor"

all 3 statements are FACTS.

hurr durr.

further, when i said you jumped to a conclusion - that was ALSO factual.

my posts were regarding what was ACTUALLY SAID. yours were speculation.

facts > fallacies

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Kulze wrote:

explain your comments in detail rather then with memes

WTF

what details do you expect? IT'S LITERALLY SELF-EXPLANATORY.

and memes? what memes? ffs, man! zero memes. you clearly are on top of things! don't know what facts are, don't know what power creep is, and don't even know what memes are! WINNING!

You're so full of yourself lol.

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Kulze wrote:

To a degree I can understand it, some feel left out if the enjoyable skill they choose at the beginning turns out to be... well.. garbage at the current meta. Or in need to invest 100 ex to get close to the level of a 5 ex build.
It's also something which I find enticing though, making non-viable builds... well.. viable to a degree, or even able to kill uber-elder or deep-delve. The only issue holding me from that is my even bigger desire to collect top-tier and legacy items, that takes up a lot of time and currency to get, and you're left with a single thing while others get 20 good pieces of equipment in the meanwhile, simply since I don't have the currency to afford throwing it away willy-nilly as I tend to do it sometimes.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

You do not understand what difficulty is, then. What passes for difficulty in this game right now are monsters and bosses that 1shot you with minimal telegraphing. You want to know why that is? Because the game is horribly balanced in the players' favor, allowing builds that can delete screens with one push of a button while they mindlessly sprint through maps picking up anything that makes a loud enough ping. GGG has to do this just to give players the illusion they're being challenged.

Remember that shitstorm during Betrayal league where many people (myself included) complained about how grossly overtuned and 1shotty the syndicate members were, and in fact, still are? I'll bet you anything that if there wasn't such a massive gap in killing and clearing power and the powercreep that enables it, the syndicate members wouldn't be so absurdly powerful that they can have a minuscule chance of killing you before you kill them.

This is kinda a response to both:

I don't believe there is a such thing as a non-viable build. And I know many other people who have been playing PoE for years also agree. Any build is viable if you do damage and you don't get hit. There are no guaranteed hits for 99% of the game, so if you got hit it means you weren't good enough on positioning. I don't think one shots are an issue really. Would it be nice if there weren't any? sure, but they are by no means a wall that stops some builds and not other. The reason we tell people that 150% life from tree is mandatory is not because it is, its because most people aren't skilled enough to just not get hit. And even with all of that said, you could just pump life on any build (or ES on others) and then you avoid the 1 shot issue all together. You'll do less damage but so what. People do fist-only runs of souls games and enjoy it. That is a valid play-style, if someone wants difficulty then make your run more difficult by leaving out certain elements that make it easier. Ideally people shouldn't need to get any defense at all and that should be the meta, attacks from bosses and the like should be telegraphed and they for the most part are. Defense should be the handicap you choose for yourself because your skill at positioning isn't the best or you just want to not give a fuck and tank everything. Maybe not in the latest league mechanics, but .. well, my answer to that is to play standard like I do. lol. Mechanics are fixed most of the time by the time they make it to standard. Admittedly, I have not done every single bit of end game content but I have seen it all, you can avoid damage on pretty much everything I have seen.

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iceandfire2907 wrote:

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robmafia wrote:

literally not what he said.

literally not even similar to what he said.

ffs, he even went on about "rich and poor"

I think i interpret his saying pretty good
tell me what you think about what he said?
yea we have rich and poor bc some people are good at making money and some dont. simple

...he seemed to describe private leagues. hence 'choosing mods.'

what you claim he meant was LITERALLY the opposite of what he actually said.

"

robmafia wrote:

"

iceandfire2907 wrote:

"

robmafia wrote:

literally not what he said.

literally not even similar to what he said.

ffs, he even went on about "rich and poor"

I think i interpret his saying pretty good
tell me what you think about what he said?
yea we have rich and poor bc some people are good at making money and some dont. simple

...he seemed to describe private leagues. hence 'choosing mods.'

what you claim he meant was LITERALLY the opposite of what he actually said.

yea he talk about the Synthesis solo selfound and the private league

"

sublimenotions wrote:

This is kinda a response to both:

I don't believe there is a such thing as a non-viable build. And I know many other people who have been playing PoE for years also agree. Any build is viable if you do damage and you don't get hit. There are no guaranteed hits for 99% of the game, so if you got hit it means you weren't good enough on positioning. I don't think one shots are an issue really. Would it be nice if there weren't any? sure, but they are by no means a wall that stops some builds and not other. The reason we tell people that 150% life from tree is mandatory is not because it is, its because most people aren't skilled enough to just not get hit. And even with all of that said, you could just pump life on any build (or ES on others) and then you avoid the 1 shot issue all together. You'll do less damage but so what. People do fist-only runs of souls games and enjoy it. That is a valid play-style, if someone wants difficulty then make your run more difficult by leaving out certain elements that make it easier. Ideally people shouldn't need to get any defense at all and that should be the meta, attacks from bosses and the like should be telegraphed and they for the most part are. Defense should be the handicap you choose for yourself because your skill at positioning isn't the best or you just want to not give a fuck and tank everything. Maybe not in the latest league mechanics, but .. well, my answer to that is to play standard like I do. lol. Mechanics are fixed most of the time by the time they make it to standard. Admittedly, I have not done every single bit of end game content but I have seen it all, you can avoid damage on pretty much everything I have seen.

I can call a few different ones which are surefire 1-shots though. The first is the uber-elder fight. The majority of builds doesn't have a way to stop being 'frozen' by the elder popping up from the ground. At the same time shaper can shoot his balls at you, the combination is a death-sentence for any character which can't survive the barrage of them.
Another one is spotting a 'corrupted blood' red beast in a T16 map with a speed modifier or teleporting towards the player. You can't stop the stacks from getting to 10 nearly immediately, can't heal often enough to sustain it, can't get away - with the exception of a few builds again - to leave the are and you can't kill the thing - more exceptions - fast enough to survive the encounter.

Yes, those are rare occasions, and unlikely to happen just like that. Also you can evade it with phase acrobatics, a big reason why it's so prevalent, just like MoM. The second one can be stopped by a corrupted jewel, but that's an end-game thing, nothing someone starting to farm maps has, and those combinations can creep up anytime without warning.

That doesn't make it a 'good' mechanic though. It's out of your choice to survive or not, just pure RNG, you're getting punished for something you... well.. just can't change.

Skill-wise, yes, I fully have to agree. You could kill uber-elder with a 6L flame dash even, though it'll be really tedious and you've got to be very very good, but... possible most likely, not recommended :p

The big issue is the oversight of what scaling does to the game-mechanics, hence why I'm saying the power-creep itself isn't the issue, it's how the base mechanics handle it by now. Clearly upon starting the game GGG had never intended to be where we are now, that can be seen. I still call it the 'binary play-style'. Either you're dead, or you're alive, choose the state!

To solve that the base-mechanics need a massive rework, one which won't be done in-between leagues surely, it's just too much of an effort, too much to do, too much to change. There either needs to be some sort of barrier based on equipment how much damage you deal to mobs, as well as how much damage you take from mobs.
Or the numbers need to be adjusted appropriately to reflect the larger amount of content. Defensive measures like armor, life, ES and evasion need to scale a lot higher. Monster damage has to be adjusted as well to be 'unique' to each Tier in maps you run, as well as every side-content you do. Therefore also the damage you do to them needs to be adjusted, giving you a massively harder time trying to go several tiers higher without upgrading while at the same time hindering you to upgrade to the highest-tier upgrades before a respective point. It needs to be gated... sensibly though!

Much like we can't get 6 sockets before lvl 50 (with the exception of a Tabula). The system there needs to be expanded as well, being unable to wear most of the equipment before lvl 85, or 90, rather then 80 as the maximum for the best bases in-game. The progression is bonkers right now, and that's something I hope will be addressed in 4.0.0. Otherwise we'll definitely see a 5.0.0, but the 6.0.0 isn't obvious then, too many players would leave out of frustration. Old ones because crafting awesome gear doesn't do anything, you're either dead or alive anyway, why upgrading? And newer players because the mass of options is overwhelming, all seemingly not changing anything at all. The great and well thought-out system of mods, implicits, corruptions and so on would become meaningless if the scaling goes on with the same speed after all.

Still, that's not an issue of power-creep, it's an issue of how scaling in PoE works, hence we can't address power-creep but instead the underlying mechanic making it known in a 'bad way'. The scaling system.

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Still, that's not an issue of power-creep, it's an issue of how scaling in PoE works,

lolz!

dps going from 10k (years ago) to 385437825848964378954 (now) isn't power creep, guys! it's just scaling!