How to address the growing problem of power creep of items, and builds in PoE.

yeah, this click to win bullshit is soooo much better. /s

modern games are about accessible.


i do agree about power creep, and it is getting easier. but more people being able to kill end content is good. newer content should be harder than the previous, then should become more accessible in the future.


if the game is too easy, you can choose SSF leagues.

+10000 to the idea of SSF leagues to choose mods to make it more difficult.


but in all , lets be honest.
skilled players like to show off , dominate the market so people will pay them to do the content. they dont want more people to be able to handle the harder content.

just like the rich and the poor of this world.

"

Dudebag wrote:

modern games are about accessible.


i do agree about power creep, and it is getting easier. but more people being able to kill end content is good. newer content should be harder than the previous, then should become more accessible in the future.


if the game is too easy, you can choose SSF leagues.

+10000 to the idea of SSF leagues to choose mods to make it more difficult.


but in all , lets be honest.
skilled players like to show off , dominate the market so people will pay them to do the content. they dont want more people to be able to handle the harder content.

just like the rich and the poor of this world.

wow, the delusion is real.

we might as well give every monster 1 hp and cap their damage at 1 hp. then it will be accessible to most. great game, amirite?

tell me more about how i can choose mods in ssf leagues. i think you meant pay2play private leagues.

"

robmafia wrote:

"

Dudebag wrote:

modern games are about accessible.


i do agree about power creep, and it is getting easier. but more people being able to kill end content is good. newer content should be harder than the previous, then should become more accessible in the future.


if the game is too easy, you can choose SSF leagues.

+10000 to the idea of SSF leagues to choose mods to make it more difficult.


but in all , lets be honest.
skilled players like to show off , dominate the market so people will pay them to do the content. they dont want more people to be able to handle the harder content.

just like the rich and the poor of this world.

wow, the delusion is real.

we might as well give every monster 1 hp and cap their damage at 1 hp. then it will be accessible to most. great game, amirite?

tell me more about how i can choose mods in ssf leagues. i think you meant pay2play private leagues.

What he mean is it should be more accessible to more player but there's a degree to how accessible it is. Not make the game completely dumb down
you cannot choose a mod in a SSF league but what he mean is you have to get your own gear. You cant buy other people gear so your gear will likely be pretty bad and content will not be one shot. Hope that clear thing up

literally not what he said.

literally not even similar to what he said.

ffs, he even went on about "rich and poor"

"

robmafia wrote:

literally not what he said.

literally not even similar to what he said.

ffs, he even went on about "rich and poor"

That's what commonly is called 'intention'. A very nice concept which enforces one person to read 'between the lines'. Also such a nice concept which is also a great skill to pick up. You should try it, it's great! Would also help with clearly misreading posts and pushing out posts which only aim to annoy/disgruntle people, offering no information inside besides 'Nooo! I dun wan it! Make it like I want! It's the only good way!'

But back to topic:

Yes, the disparity between trading-leagues and SSF is massive. Knowing quite a lot of players personally which struggle to reach T16 maps... I would say only a few players are commonly running them, the majority is clearly stuck before uber-elder, probably even before shaper.

While the content got a lot easier in comparison since 3.0.0 started off, I suppose the extensive leagues focusing around extremely powerful crafting options is a setup for 4.0.0. Or at least I hope it's the case.

With the amount of new mechanics added it has become fairly... cluttered to say the least, balance is thrown off massively, something which needs to be addressed further on, and GGG also does it bit by bit with the major reworks of skill-types and classes along the way. It's just not quick enough with the abundant amount of content we already have.

What my hopes are is for a sort of 'legacy league' once again right before 4.0.0. A simple mechanic, nothing big there, basically just to 'clean up' on everything which has been done in the meantime. Balancing out side-content comparatively to mapping, removing frustrating mechanics which have been put in, focusing on putting the demanding content to the side in a way people can choose to run it... and it being rewarding enough to do so despite the clear danger for your exp-bar/your HC character. That would be one reasonable solution at least.

Ramping up life for mobs obviously isn't a good idea. Already most builds are forced to choose between snail-pace (in comparison to the meta-builds) play-styles by building tons of defense along the line, or going full bonkers with damage to - as already mentioned before - one-shot everything before it can react, par the motto: Offense is the best defense! Which is clearly true at the moment, you only need enough survivability to get through a single crit, afterwards any mob dies away easily.

Best example for it is Winter Orb, even after the nerf it's overpowered as can be, a big reason as to why I chose it. Not only is it strong, it also provides a fairly enjoyable game-play. The feeling of just waltzing through hordes of enemies as they drop down is great. That's one big thing as to why people play hack'n'slash ARPGs after all, feeling mighty, powerful, able to wipe out tons of monsters while loot drops left and right (even if 99% of it is crap, it feels rewarding).
Changing that concept up would be detrimental to player retention surely. the 'old times' of beta-gameplay are over, that much is clear. And I guess the times of mapping being the 'one and all' are as well. The game will branch out further and become more complex as more side-lore and mechanics are implemented, more mods added which in combination make overpowered builds even more so and the game-play faster then it already is.

The disparity between SSF and trade-leagues is simply just too massive. Someone playing SSF will take a fair while to progress while otherwise you can simply buy the fitting equipment. Someone will drop some or get the wrong mods while crafting for sure! There's an abundance of extra stuff available all the time therefore, only getting more prevalent as player numbers skyrocket further and further.

Wow, people still... whining about their inability to not use OP builds.

Someone mentioned grinding and not getting rewarded. My answer to that is to play standard. Everything is worth literally 100 times more. Why would you play on a league where things have no value? The drops rates on a league are not better, but the amount of currency you get per find in standard is exponentially more. Things that are worth like 1-5c are basically garbage, things that are worth something are more like 20, 50, 150 chaos. There is more value in that simply because you can use the currency itself to do more. Base your play style on crafting gear rather than buying it and you won't have need to whine about the mythology that standard has a bad economy.

The game is supposed to have some builds that are stronger than others, that's called built in difficulty. You dont have a difficulty slider in path of exile, you have gear and skill choices instead. You want a harder game then you play with gear and skills that are more difficult to use, thats how you "git gud", playing with a copypasted meta OP build PLUS playing in a new league is essentially throwing the game on the easiest difficulty. A game with a similar concept is the darksouls series, you can play the meta r1r1r1r1r1r1r1 rapier build if you want, or you can play something harder. The difficulty of the game is based on what you choose to run as, not a slider you move in an options menu.

People who are complaining about "power creep" are people who don't like the game to have proper difficulty. Proper difficulty is a game where the gear and skills you choose dictate how hard your experience will be, you HAVE to have things that are stronger and weaker than other things, thats how that works.

"

Kulze wrote:

"

robmafia wrote:

literally not what he said.

literally not even similar to what he said.

ffs, he even went on about "rich and poor"

That's what commonly is called 'intention'. A very nice concept which enforces one person to read 'between the lines'.

bs. you and the other person are just jumping to conclusions.

you're making fallacies and running with them for umpteen paragraphs, as if the premise was factual.

you can't will a fallacy into fact.

"

sublimenotions wrote:

People who are complaining about "power creep" are people who don't like the game to have proper difficulty. Proper difficulty is a game where the gear and skills you choose dictate how hard your experience will be, you HAVE to have things that are stronger and weaker than other things, thats how that works.

You do not understand what difficulty is, then. What passes for difficulty in this game right now are monsters and bosses that 1shot you with minimal telegraphing. You want to know why that is? Because the game is horribly balanced in the players' favor, allowing builds that can delete screens with one push of a button while they mindlessly sprint through maps picking up anything that makes a loud enough ping. GGG has to do this just to give players the illusion they're being challenged.

Remember that shitstorm during Betrayal league where many people (myself included) complained about how grossly overtuned and 1shotty the syndicate members were, and in fact, still are? I'll bet you anything that if there wasn't such a massive gap in killing and clearing power and the powercreep that enables it, the syndicate members wouldn't be so absurdly powerful that they can have a minuscule chance of killing you before you kill them.

"

sublimenotions wrote:

Wow, people still... whining about their inability to not use OP builds.

Someone mentioned grinding and not getting rewarded. My answer to that is to play standard. Everything is worth literally 100 times more. Why would you play on a league where things have no value? The drops rates on a league are not better, but the amount of currency you get per find in standard is exponentially more. Things that are worth like 1-5c are basically garbage, things that are worth something are more like 20, 50, 150 chaos. There is more value in that simply because you can use the currency itself to do more. Base your play style on crafting gear rather than buying it and you won't have need to whine about the mythology that standard has a bad economy.

The game is supposed to have some builds that are stronger than others, that's called built in difficulty. You dont have a difficulty slider in path of exile, you have gear and skill choices instead. You want a harder game then you play with gear and skills that are more difficult to use, thats how you "git gud", playing with a copypasted meta OP build PLUS playing in a new league is essentially throwing the game on the easiest difficulty. A game with a similar concept is the darksouls series, you can play the meta r1r1r1r1r1r1r1 rapier build if you want, or you can play something harder. The difficulty of the game is based on what you choose to run as, not a slider you move in an options menu.

People who are complaining about "power creep" are people who don't like the game to have proper difficulty. Proper difficulty is a game where the gear and skills you choose dictate how hard your experience will be, you HAVE to have things that are stronger and weaker than other things, thats how that works.

To a degree I can understand it, some feel left out if the enjoyable skill they choose at the beginning turns out to be... well.. garbage at the current meta. Or in need to invest 100 ex to get close to the level of a 5 ex build.
It's also something which I find enticing though, making non-viable builds... well.. viable to a degree, or even able to kill uber-elder or deep-delve. The only issue holding me from that is my even bigger desire to collect top-tier and legacy items, that takes up a lot of time and currency to get, and you're left with a single thing while others get 20 good pieces of equipment in the meanwhile, simply since I don't have the currency to afford throwing it away willy-nilly as I tend to do it sometimes.

"

robmafia wrote:

bs. you and the other person are just jumping to conclusions.

you're making fallacies and running with them for umpteen paragraphs, as if the premise was factual.

you can't will a fallacy into fact.

Yes, sure, since what you are saying is the 'one and all' and has to be true, right? While 10 people say it's different you're still repeating the same lines without giving concrete explanations as if those would be true then.

What you're doing is the same as a 4-year old child stomping their feet on the ground and screaming 'but I want it! I say it so it has to be it!'. That's ok if a child does it, it's not 'socially integrated' as it's called. But if someone who's an adult still does it... well.. it's appalling/disgusting, or whatever term you want to use.
A forum is a place to push ideas and thoughts back and forth, not to try and overtake every single discussion with the own opinion, demanding that it can only be the singular right one, ignoring intricacies and the complexity of different personalities and likings all-together.

Just one thing, grow up, learn the important things you've clearly missed out in your upbringing (sadly) and speak back up again afterwards. People are willing to listen, they'll also change their minds if you deliver properly worded examples. Sometimes those examples won't be 'on point' but someone who has a bit of social awareness wouldn't always try and stomp on them left and right like you do.

You know what you sadly are? The type of person nobody wants to have in their room, while saying some things which are true, you lace it in a sort of tone nobody wants to hear it, as well as lacing it with the same amount of situational truths, only applicable at specific moments while putting them out like they're the universal truth which should be used always and without discussion. You're picking out single sentences without context and stating them in a sense never intended by the original writer. So do everyone a favor in this forum and think about those things before mashing your next keyboard in anger and frustration.