How to address the growing problem of power creep of items, and builds in PoE.

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robmafia wrote:

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Path of Exile is an online Action RPG set in the dark fantasy world of Wraeclast. It is designed around a strong online item economy, deep character customisation, competitive PvP and ladder races. The game is completely free and will never be "pay to win".

sorry facts hurt your feelings.

lolmao

are your fweelings hurt little princess? because I called the game that you are obviously insanely emotionally connected to a simple hack and slay rpg? keep up the good work and go compete some more bra.

...i'm so "emotionally connected" that i haven't played in months? says the one denying facts and pretending that every arpg game must be fluff?

TELL ME MORE!

step 1. make silly claims and call people delusional
step 2. get BTFO by facts but keep arguing
step 3. ?????????
step 4. PROFIT!

I am telling you how the vast majority sees and plays this game. if you want to make a sport out of it, that's fine and it's your choice.

it's still not how I define "competitive". you and ggg can define it in whatever way you like.

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grogzor wrote:

I am telling you how the vast majority sees and plays this game. if you want to make a sport out of it, that's fine and it's your choice.

it's still not how I define "competitive". you and ggg can define it in whatever way you like.

...we're competing right now.

you're not winning.

Increase monster hp/boss hp, reduce dAmage on most meta skills. Problem solved.

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Dr1MaR wrote:

Increase monster hp/boss hp, reduce dAmage on most meta skills. Problem solved.

...sounds like you've played for 1,000 hours.

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grogzor wrote:

edit: by analogy I could also say that super mario world is highly competitive because a few hundred or thousand speedrunners make a sport out of it and chase insane records while the truth stares everyone in the eyes: the game is just a fun jump n run, that's all.

some people have been playing this game so much that they cant think straightforward anymore. they need to stop being so insanely emotionally invested and come back down to earth.

Those speedrunners even if its super mario are highly respected, aren't they?

People pay a lot of money for them to see them doing their thing and there are dozens of poe ladder pushers who make a living just by doing so.

According to Reddit likes the majority of the poe community cares most about impossible and incredible expensive to craft items. But that doesnt mean that there is not a lot of people who respect other stuff like ladder pushing.

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grogzor wrote:

nobody cares or competes in this "competitive" ladder except insane nolifers and streamers who make like 0.001% of the playerbase. the rest is just gearing up and leveling heroes and fun builds and enjoying slaying monsters. this is an arpg after all.

Lol, you really did not think that through, did you ?

Why do HC racers streamers are popular ?
Because people are watching them.
Why are people watching them ?
Because the ladder makes the environment that they are playing it competitive.

Sure, they would find other ways or just ... other games if there was no ladder in PoE, but they chose to play around the ladder, and people watch them for that.


And people watching them are not no-lifer for the most part I bet, and they do care to some extent for sure.


Your opinion on this does not matter, the ladder in PoE is a thing, competitive PoE is a thing, period.

Actually, when i first started path of exile i was hoping that i can build some overpowered mage that can throw a vast variety of spells all at once and obliterates all those monster, like invoker in dota 2 XD. I know it sounds stupid.. i never played arpg before at that time.

How is it related to the topic? Well, it's not supposed to be... I just want to say that different player plays the game for different reason.. and kept in mind that they are people that only play like few hours per week.. maybe even only play on weekend.

In my opinion, "longevity", "challenges", it's already enough in the game.
It's only a game, get involved, but NOT too involved, killed shaper? killed uber elder? finished league goal? good for you, move on, they are other things to do, forcing players to play an extensive amount of time with some "brute force" method, (eg. double bosses hp) is not a good choice.I know ppl can literally finish everything in first week by playing non stop, but it is not always about rushing... hardcore and ssf exist for player who really wants to challenge themselves.

All in all, i am not actually talking much about the topic, i am not really against nor agree with the "balances"/"changes" proposed, think about it, game balancing is much more than just looking at how fast the best player can kill bosses, or just looking at meta build and double/ triple the boss hp, it just doesn't work like that. Remember, the game heavily focused on single player pve, well, for me at least...

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The_Human_Tornado wrote:

There are 1275 chars in Synthesis SSF HC higher than lvl 90 and 3450 more in Syntehsis SSF and those leagues are solely designed to proof and show off individual and build performance.

Not to mention all the dudes who wanna be THE GUY but cant get 90 due to being new or whatever. Obviously not everyone goes for rank 1 or page 1, its already satisfying for some players to be in the top 500 or in the top 10 of their ascendancy or whatever.

There is no reason to choose such a SSF league over trade leagues other than having a fair racing environment and proving that a build or individual doesnt need to buy bosses, challenges or uses cheap tricks like xp leech group play or whatever.

It is safe to say that all those people got a competitive attitude because else they would not feel the urge to seperate themselves from the rest.

Then you also got the racers in trade leagues, their numbers is debateable.

These numbers sound more like 10% of the playerbase than 0.001%, lol.

There are several reasons besides racing to chose such a league, racing is only one of those, and a fairly major one.

Those leagues also aren't entirely supposed to be a place for those who thrive to be Nr. 1 in a league, otherwise Standard SSF wouldn't be a thing, your reasoning for all those people to be competitive is simply a wrong statement, even if it is probably a fair majority of those, that much has to be given.

I personally had several SSF characters, both in HC as well as SC. One of those reasons was to show people who've spoken up about being unable to create a personal - and working - build to showcase it is easily possible. This could only be achieved via doing this in SSF, otherwise the reasoning of 'you've simply traded' would've come up afterwards.
A second reason for some of those characters was to simply avoid the temptation of trading, SSF is a great place to test out league-starters, as with those you usually won't trade as long as possible, therefore testing them in such a manner is a good choice.
The third reason - which is the only one aligning with your stated reasoning - was for a personal race between me, a streamer and some people there to see who could go the farthest in SSF HC, that was back in 'Abyss'.

As for reasons why other people play SSF, those are fairly many. Wanting to enjoy the game similar to a single-player one is one. Avoiding the cluttered towns to lessen loading times if your PC isn't up to par for the myriad of effects added over time is another (And that actually can be quite an issue, especially when playing over Steam). Some also are simply training to get quicker, provided with an empty Stash to alleviate the issues of storing items only meant for the character to train with, and many definitely are there for the 'personal' competition, wanting to see how far along they can come without anyone telling them afterwards 'Oh, this guy surely has traded for all that crap!'.

One thing is clear though, the majority of people in ANY league isn't racing, or at least not racing for a place in the ladder, the number of those is fairly small.

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Dr1MaR wrote:

Increase monster hp/boss hp, reduce dAmage on most meta skills. Problem solved.

Nope, it's not, the issue is deeper then that, unless you actually want to ruin those builds which are now actually balanced towards the content presented and only take Meta-builds into consideration.

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Fruz wrote:

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grogzor wrote:

nobody cares or competes in this "competitive" ladder except insane nolifers and streamers who make like 0.001% of the playerbase. the rest is just gearing up and leveling heroes and fun builds and enjoying slaying monsters. this is an arpg after all.

Lol, you really did not think that through, did you ?

Why do HC racers streamers are popular ?
Because people are watching them.
Why are people watching them ?
Because the ladder makes the environment that they are playing it competitive.

Sure, they would find other ways or just ... other games if there was no ladder in PoE, but they chose to play around the ladder, and people watch them for that.


And people watching them are not no-lifer for the most part I bet, and they do care to some extent for sure.


Your opinion on this does not matter, the ladder in PoE is a thing, competitive PoE is a thing, period.

Therefore your own signature is misleading massively after your statement. SSF is in that case the most prominent and 'hardcore' environment presented to achieve this. Racing against the clock without the ability to work together in a group, speeding up the progress compared to someone who is doing it solo.

Hence, the game need to be balanced towards SSF-playstyle first and foremost with that reasoning, not towards the trade-league.

Why so? People come because they see the game is fun, people can compete, you can do a lot of stuff. Why do many people stay long-term though without competing? Because they can steadily upgrade their character and never loose anything, no matter in which league they are, adding month by month, league by league to their wealth in standard and using it to craft great gear, perfecting their characters.

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mooieshi wrote:

Actually, when i first started path of exile i was hoping that i can build some overpowered mage that can throw a vast variety of spells all at once and obliterates all those monster, like invoker in dota 2 XD. I know it sounds stupid.. i never played arpg before at that time.

How is it related to the topic? Well, it's not supposed to be... I just want to say that different player plays the game for different reason.. and kept in mind that they are people that only play like few hours per week.. maybe even only play on weekend.

In my opinion, "longevity", "challenges", it's already enough in the game.
It's only a game, get involved, but NOT too involved, killed shaper? killed uber elder? finished league goal? good for you, move on, they are other things to do, forcing players to play an extensive amount of time with some "brute force" method, (eg. double bosses hp) is not a good choice.I know ppl can literally finish everything in first week by playing non stop, but it is not always about rushing... hardcore and ssf exist for player who really wants to challenge themselves.

All in all, i am not actually talking much about the topic, i am not really against nor agree with the "balances"/"changes" proposed, think about it, game balancing is much more than just looking at how fast the best player can kill bosses, or just looking at meta build and double/ triple the boss hp, it just doesn't work like that. Remember, the game heavily focused on single player pve, well, for me at least...

Yes, exactly that! A reasonable person speaking up. It's the exact reason why I'm pushing for 'Make the whole progression rewarding, without having any dead-stops in-between' rather then 'tweak those numbers a bit and it's done'.

A game is never 'perfect', which doesn't mean it should be stopped to be pushed into that direction, hence reworks of fundamental systems should be fairly common rather then dreaded, as long as those changes provide a better feel for the game, and more fun provided, pleasing both the people which are 'simple-minded' (not meant in a negative way) about gaming, just wanting to sit down those 30 minutes to 1 hour after their long work-day and winding down, as well as providing a space for those who want to compete in any way, or simply push the game-mechanics to their limits.


And last but not least: Robmafia, just please leave, if you're not playing then why are you here? You're neither making a proper statement, only undermining other posts, nor providing any proper feedback. You're a detriment to the community... probably to any community if you're behaving like that outside of the forum as well.
Behavior like yours is what makes people call a community toxic, it's literally appalling.